Bug: Unconfirmed Upgrading to currently released version

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 01:57 PM

I recently purchased the "boxed" version of Marine Aquarium from NOVA Development

one system I've installed it on, using Win 7 Professional 64 bit, I had the previously installed "beta" unregistered download of MA 3.

The new install added a second shortcut to my desktop that I only just noticed today.

On my desktop I now have:

The first (unregistered beta) short cut runs: C:\Windows\system32\MarineAquarium3.scr, starting in C:\Windows\system32\ (shows as "T603.3.0.1933")

while the second (registered, "boxed" version, also beta) runs: an "application" starting in C:\Program Files (x86)\Marine Aquarium\ (shows as "T928.3.0.1953")

If and when there is an update to MA3 beta, will this be a problem? Which target location will be updated?

Why doesn't the "boxed" version over-write the unregistered, demo version?

cjmaddy · 01-17-2010, 02:56 PM

Delete/uninstall, the unregistered version. You no longer need it since you have now bought the boxed version from Nova.

Though why you didn't register the trial version is beyond me....

As Jim has told you, they are all currently version 10d.

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 03:29 PM

Originally posted by cjmaddy:

Delete/uninstall, the unregistered version.

Nothing that I see in the Installation instructions of the "boxed version" said to do that. Many programs, upon install, will automatically remove previous versions, too. This did not.

You no longer need it since you have now bought the boxed version from Nova.

Correct, and on the other half of my dual-boot system, that is exactly what I did.

I also uninstalled the unregistered (demo) version on my other test system, too. It does not have this problem obviously.

Though why you didn't register the trial version is beyond me....

As Jim has told you, they are all currently version 10d.

Was planning on doing just that, but for the same $9.99 I have a CD, a colorful box (

) and a MA 3 User's Manual in pdf format.

Besides, I'm now able to test the "boxed" installation routine and, as described, discover a problem which I've now brought to the PTB's* attention.

* Powers That Be

Jim Sachs · 01-17-2010, 04:37 PM

Don't confuse the program with the installer. No matter where you get it, the current program is 10d. Nova has their own installer, which probably has its own file locations and registry settings. It would not be aware of my version, and vice-versa.

When you buy the boxed version in a store at full retail of $19.95, only a few cents finds its way back to me. If they are discounting it, then even less. If you buy it from the SereneScreen website, I get $15. (Yes, about 100 times as much.)

So you can see why I'm not eager to discuss or promote the boxed version. Its existance is necessary, because having it on the store shelves gives us credibility and acts as our only advertising. My only hope is that a potential customer will see the SereneScreen logo on the box, go home and somehow find their way to the SereneScreen site, where they will download and buy the program. Most of our current sales consist of $9.95 upgrades from previous version of Marine Aquarium (Nova doesn't do upgrades.)

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 04:51 PM

Well, first, if I had known that, I would have bought the upgrade through the download.

However, since the two install portions of the program in different places, how will this effect any future upgrades - beta10e, for example?

Jim Sachs · 01-17-2010, 05:05 PM

The upgrades are entirely self-contained. They don't use anything from previous versions, except the Key Code. When Beta 10e comes along, just download and run it. If you have a valid Key, the program will just work. (If there is no Key, it will still work, but in Demo mode.)

Dale · 01-17-2010, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Don't confuse the program with the installer. No matter where you get it, the current program is 10d. Nova has their own installer, which probably has its own file locations and registry settings.

If different "vendors" put things in differing file locations and differing registry settings, how will updates work?

Or - will each "vendor" have their own update procedure and update installer?

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 07:02 PM

That's somewhat my question, Dale.

A lot of folks may have downloaded the "demo" version, but were reluctant to pay $19.95 for the full version. However, when they see it at Staples for $9.99 after a $10.00 rebate, they may go for it, putting them in the same situation I am in - with MA3 files in multiple locations, and with two "shortcut" icons.

As an aside - I know how to clean my system up - first, I would uninstall the "boxed" version, then install the downloaded "demo" version, then uninstall it. This should get all the files for both copies off of my PC. Then, reinstall the "boxed" version. In my opinion, folks should not have to do this.

Ralph · 01-17-2010, 07:33 PM

Uninstalling in the "normal" sense will not remove all the files or registry settings. This is exactly the results of the problem that you have been describing. Bits of this and bits of that are left everywhere and in the end you have a program that, if it runs will do so with various configurations.

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 07:51 PM

You are reading my mind, Ralph.

Since I last posted, I went to uninstall the Nova ("boxed") version as I described.

To my surprise, both copies of my MA3 showed up - the NOVA one and the Prolific one - each with it's own uninstal routine.

So, I first uninstalled the NOVA copy and then the Prolific copy, re-booted, and checked to see if either was still there. Nope, both gone.

Next, I installed the Prolific download. I wanted to see if it would use the NOVA Serial Code, which I was prepared to re-type. To my surprise, as you noted, there were still some registry settings remaining from the NOVA installation and it "remembered" my Serial Code and is registered/unlocked.

In the "about" screen, it shows the Prolific information, not the NOVA info that was showing under the NOVA install. Website link is now to Prolific, while it was to NOVA under the NOVA install.

Yep, bits of this and bits of that are apparently somewhere.

I wonder if there is a way I can clean all of both off so I can run a "clean" MA3?

Jim Sachs · 01-17-2010, 07:52 PM

With my version, each update simply overwrites the old one. I have no idea how Nova would do it - they never mentioned even having updates.

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 07:58 PM

Whoa!

That's a big WTF if the Nova "beta" can not be updated.

Especially when added to the above file/uninstal/registry confusion.

Jim Sachs · 01-17-2010, 08:32 PM

I still think the confusion lies in not quite understanding what an MA3 update is. Each new version simply replaces MA3.scr with a newer copy. It does not add, subtract, modify, or even care about any previous version. If it finds a valid Key Code, it will run unrestricted, otherwise it reverts to Demo mode. Put it in any directory you want, or just on the Desktop. Double-click it and it runs. If it finds some values in the Registry location HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/SereneScreen/MarineAquarium3, it will use them. If not, it will just use its default settings.

If you are not old-school like me, and use Prolific's installer to copy the program to your computer, then it will attempt to figure out what location your operating system likes to use for screensavers, and put the file there. The uninstaller will also look in that location and delete the file. Key Codes are a special case, and are not deleted. In fact they are placed in two different registry locations, so that if one gets accidentally deleted, the program restores it from the other location. Not sure about the Nova installer - never tried it.

So, anyone can download a new Beta and try it out. When one is available, the link is always prominently displayed in this Forum, as well as my fish-byte.com site, and (if the Beta is very stable) on the SereneScreen.com site.

Since I am the only source of updates, I'd be very surprised if Nova ever mentioned a new Beta being available. Those versions would, of course, have links to my websites, so that I'd get any potential sales, not Nova. If enough new features are added, then Nova would surely replace their CD and download versions with the updated program.

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 08:38 PM

So, as long as it is "version 3", any bug fixes or updates should work whether one gets the software from Prolific or Nova?

An upgrade to "version 4" would be a paid upgrade, similar to the V 2.6 to V 3 (beta) is now?

As long as an update/upgrade only changes the "scr" file, that makes sense.

Jim Sachs · 01-17-2010, 08:53 PM

Exactly.

Dale · 01-17-2010, 09:00 PM

JohnWho, what does the .pdf manual that you got with the boxed version, say about updates?

Also, I wonder if that .pdf can be posted somewhere, so that other folks can read it?

Originally posted by JohnWho:

I wonder if there is a way I can clean all of both off so I can run a "clean" MA3?

Yes. First uninstall whatever you can.

Make sure that C:\Program Files\SereneScreen\Marine Aquarium 3 has been deleted, and C:\Program Files\NOVA?????\Marine Aquarium 3 have been removed by the uninstall. Also C:\Windows\System32\MarineAquarium3.scr

Then go to "C:\Users\YOURACCOUNT\AppData\Roaming\Marine Aquarium 3" and delete the Marine Aquarium 3 folder and all of its contents. This will get rid of some customiaztions. (from the Prolific version).

Do a complete (advanced) search for the files MA3Logolist.lst, MA3Playlist.lst, and openserenescreen.js - to see of Nova put files somewhere else. If so, delete the files and the containing directory.

Run REGEDIT as an administrator. Back up your registry. Search for the Keys "MarineAquarium3" (no spaces), and delete the key and all data (if the key above that one is SereneScreen or something about Nova, delete that one, too). Keep searching to the end of the registry. This step will clean up most of the related stuff in the registry.

Reboot your computer.

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 09:03 PM

@ Jim - In that case, I would ask that any changes to V 3 be available as a single "scr" file download besides the complete "install" package you have now.

I know that an install package will add extra files to my system (but won't matter to anyone who already has the "Prolific" install) while a simple file replace will not mess anything up.

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 09:14 PM

@ Dale -

That's a lot of steps to clean everything off. I may try it some other time.

JohnWho · 01-17-2010, 09:27 PM

@ Dale -

I see nothing in the pdf manual that mentions anything about upgrades or updates.

Interestingly, though, and somewhat off topic, the manual does say this:

WARNING: It may be possible to configure Marine Aquarium in such a way that monitor burn in is possible. (This depends on the age of and type of monitor — such as older CRT or newer plasma monitors.) Please use caution and only use the static background settings (auto-panning off) if you are sure that the monitor will not suffer from burn in.
Please read the monitor’s documentation and, if the monitor is subject to burn in, do not run Marine Aquarium in static mode.

Don't know if the pdf is proprietary to Nova or not.

Dale · 01-17-2010, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by JohnWho:

@ Jim - In that case, I would ask that any changes to V 3 be available as a single "scr" file download besides the complete "install" package you have now.

I know that an install package will add extra files to my system (but won't matter to anyone who already has the "Prolific" install) while a simple file replace will not mess anything up.

I believe that the installer must be used at least once (first), to get everything created correctly in the right places, for whatever version of Windows is being used. At least that would be the case for the "average user".

In the past, there have been instances where additional operations were required, because of changes in the executable/features/whatever. For instance, Beta 5 required an additional script to fix the registry. The point here is that "just replace the .scr file" might not always be the full procedure. The installer would take care of whatever is needed.

In my opinion, asking "average folks" to download a new .scr file and replace the one in system32 is asking a bit much. And, since January 26th (2009) when the Installer version became available for test - Beta 8k - I'm not aware that a bare .scr has been made available (on Serenescreen at least).

Finally, at least for SereneScreen, everybody who purchased MA3 has been promised that there will be updates.

01-17-2010, 01:57 PM	#1
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Upgrading to currently released version I recently purchased the "boxed" version of Marine Aquarium from NOVA Development one system I've installed it on, using Win 7 Professional 64 bit, I had the previously installed "beta" unregistered download of MA 3. The new install added a second shortcut to my desktop that I only just noticed today. On my desktop I now have: The first (unregistered beta) short cut runs: C:\Windows\system32\MarineAquarium3.scr, starting in C:\Windows\system32\ (shows as "T603.3.0.1933") while the second (registered, "boxed" version, also beta) runs: an "application" starting in C:\Program Files (x86)\Marine Aquarium\ (shows as "T928.3.0.1953") If and when there is an update to MA3 beta, will this be a problem? Which target location will be updated? Why doesn't the "boxed" version over-write the unregistered, demo version?

01-17-2010, 04:37 PM	#4
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Don't confuse the program with the installer. No matter where you get it, the current program is 10d. Nova has their own installer, which probably has its own file locations and registry settings. It would not be aware of my version, and vice-versa. When you buy the boxed version in a store at full retail of $19.95, only a few cents finds its way back to me. If they are discounting it, then even less. If you buy it from the SereneScreen website, I get $15. (Yes, about 100 times as much.) So you can see why I'm not eager to discuss or promote the boxed version. Its existance is necessary, because having it on the store shelves gives us credibility and acts as our only advertising. My only hope is that a potential customer will see the SereneScreen logo on the box, go home and somehow find their way to the SereneScreen site, where they will download and buy the program. Most of our current sales consist of $9.95 upgrades from previous version of Marine Aquarium (Nova doesn't do upgrades.) Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

01-17-2010, 05:05 PM	#6
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	The upgrades are entirely self-contained. They don't use anything from previous versions, except the Key Code. When Beta 10e comes along, just download and run it. If you have a valid Key, the program will just work. (If there is no Key, it will still work, but in Demo mode.) Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

01-17-2010, 07:52 PM	#11
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	With my version, each update simply overwrites the old one. I have no idea how Nova would do it - they never mentioned even having updates. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

01-17-2010, 08:32 PM	#13
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	I still think the confusion lies in not quite understanding what an MA3 update is. Each new version simply replaces MA3.scr with a newer copy. It does not add, subtract, modify, or even care about any previous version. If it finds a valid Key Code, it will run unrestricted, otherwise it reverts to Demo mode. Put it in any directory you want, or just on the Desktop. Double-click it and it runs. If it finds some values in the Registry location HKEY_CURRENT_USER/Software/SereneScreen/MarineAquarium3, it will use them. If not, it will just use its default settings. If you are not old-school like me, and use Prolific's installer to copy the program to your computer, then it will attempt to figure out what location your operating system likes to use for screensavers, and put the file there. The uninstaller will also look in that location and delete the file. Key Codes are a special case, and are not deleted. In fact they are placed in two different registry locations, so that if one gets accidentally deleted, the program restores it from the other location. Not sure about the Nova installer - never tried it. So, anyone can download a new Beta and try it out. When one is available, the link is always prominently displayed in this Forum, as well as my fish-byte.com site, and (if the Beta is very stable) on the SereneScreen.com site. Since I am the only source of updates, I'd be very surprised if Nova ever mentioned a new Beta being available. Those versions would, of course, have links to my websites, so that I'd get any potential sales, not Nova. If enough new features are added, then Nova would surely replace their CD and download versions with the updated program. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

01-17-2010, 02:56 PM	#2
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Delete/uninstall, the unregistered version. You no longer need it since you have now bought the boxed version from Nova. Though why you didn't register the trial version is beyond me.... As Jim has told you, they are all currently version 10d.

01-17-2010, 03:29 PM	#3
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Originally posted by cjmaddy: Delete/uninstall, the unregistered version. Nothing that I see in the Installation instructions of the "boxed version" said to do that. Many programs, upon install, will automatically remove previous versions, too. This did not. You no longer need it since you have now bought the boxed version from Nova. Correct, and on the other half of my dual-boot system, that is exactly what I did. I also uninstalled the unregistered (demo) version on my other test system, too. It does not have this problem obviously. Though why you didn't register the trial version is beyond me.... As Jim has told you, they are all currently version 10d. Was planning on doing just that, but for the same $9.99 I have a CD, a colorful box ( ) and a MA 3 User's Manual in pdf format. Besides, I'm now able to test the "boxed" installation routine and, as described, discover a problem which I've now brought to the PTB's* attention. * Powers That Be

01-17-2010, 04:51 PM	#5
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Well, first, if I had known that, I would have bought the upgrade through the download. However, since the two install portions of the program in different places, how will this effect any future upgrades - beta10e, for example?

01-17-2010, 06:05 PM	#7
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Don't confuse the program with the installer. No matter where you get it, the current program is 10d. Nova has their own installer, which probably has its own file locations and registry settings. If different "vendors" put things in differing file locations and differing registry settings, how will updates work? Or - will each "vendor" have their own update procedure and update installer?

01-17-2010, 07:02 PM	#8
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	That's somewhat my question, Dale. A lot of folks may have downloaded the "demo" version, but were reluctant to pay $19.95 for the full version. However, when they see it at Staples for $9.99 after a $10.00 rebate, they may go for it, putting them in the same situation I am in - with MA3 files in multiple locations, and with two "shortcut" icons. As an aside - I know how to clean my system up - first, I would uninstall the "boxed" version, then install the downloaded "demo" version, then uninstall it. This should get all the files for both copies off of my PC. Then, reinstall the "boxed" version. In my opinion, folks should not have to do this.

01-17-2010, 07:33 PM	#9
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,443	Uninstalling in the "normal" sense will not remove all the files or registry settings. This is exactly the results of the problem that you have been describing. Bits of this and bits of that are left everywhere and in the end you have a program that, if it runs will do so with various configurations.

01-17-2010, 07:51 PM	#10
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	You are reading my mind, Ralph. Since I last posted, I went to uninstall the Nova ("boxed") version as I described. To my surprise, both copies of my MA3 showed up - the NOVA one and the Prolific one - each with it's own uninstal routine. So, I first uninstalled the NOVA copy and then the Prolific copy, re-booted, and checked to see if either was still there. Nope, both gone. Next, I installed the Prolific download. I wanted to see if it would use the NOVA Serial Code, which I was prepared to re-type. To my surprise, as you noted, there were still some registry settings remaining from the NOVA installation and it "remembered" my Serial Code and is registered/unlocked. In the "about" screen, it shows the Prolific information, not the NOVA info that was showing under the NOVA install. Website link is now to Prolific, while it was to NOVA under the NOVA install. Yep, bits of this and bits of that are apparently somewhere. I wonder if there is a way I can clean all of both off so I can run a "clean" MA3?

01-17-2010, 07:58 PM	#12
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	Whoa! That's a big WTF if the Nova "beta" can not be updated. Especially when added to the above file/uninstal/registry confusion.

01-17-2010, 08:38 PM	#14
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	So, as long as it is "version 3", any bug fixes or updates should work whether one gets the software from Prolific or Nova? An upgrade to "version 4" would be a paid upgrade, similar to the V 2.6 to V 3 (beta) is now? As long as an update/upgrade only changes the "scr" file, that makes sense.

01-17-2010, 08:53 PM	#15
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Exactly. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

01-17-2010, 09:00 PM	#16
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	JohnWho, what does the .pdf manual that you got with the boxed version, say about updates? Also, I wonder if that .pdf can be posted somewhere, so that other folks can read it? Originally posted by JohnWho: I wonder if there is a way I can clean all of both off so I can run a "clean" MA3? Yes. First uninstall whatever you can. Make sure that C:\Program Files\SereneScreen\Marine Aquarium 3 has been deleted, and C:\Program Files\NOVA?????\Marine Aquarium 3 have been removed by the uninstall. Also C:\Windows\System32\MarineAquarium3.scr Then go to "C:\Users\YOURACCOUNT\AppData\Roaming\Marine Aquarium 3" and delete the Marine Aquarium 3 folder and all of its contents. This will get rid of some customiaztions. (from the Prolific version). Do a complete (advanced) search for the files MA3Logolist.lst, MA3Playlist.lst, and openserenescreen.js - to see of Nova put files somewhere else. If so, delete the files and the containing directory. Run REGEDIT as an administrator. Back up your registry. Search for the Keys "MarineAquarium3" (no spaces), and delete the key and all data (if the key above that one is SereneScreen or something about Nova, delete that one, too). Keep searching to the end of the registry. This step will clean up most of the related stuff in the registry. Reboot your computer.

01-17-2010, 09:03 PM	#17
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	@ Jim - In that case, I would ask that any changes to V 3 be available as a single "scr" file download besides the complete "install" package you have now. I know that an install package will add extra files to my system (but won't matter to anyone who already has the "Prolific" install) while a simple file replace will not mess anything up.

01-17-2010, 09:14 PM	#18
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	@ Dale - That's a lot of steps to clean everything off. I may try it some other time.

01-17-2010, 09:27 PM	#19
JohnWho Registered Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida Posts: 486	@ Dale - I see nothing in the pdf manual that mentions anything about upgrades or updates. Interestingly, though, and somewhat off topic, the manual does say this: WARNING: It may be possible to configure Marine Aquarium in such a way that monitor burn in is possible. (This depends on the age of and type of monitor — such as older CRT or newer plasma monitors.) Please use caution and only use the static background settings (auto-panning off) if you are sure that the monitor will not suffer from burn in. Please read the monitor’s documentation and, if the monitor is subject to burn in, do not run Marine Aquarium in static mode. Don't know if the pdf is proprietary to Nova or not.

01-17-2010, 09:41 PM	#20
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by JohnWho: @ Jim - In that case, I would ask that any changes to V 3 be available as a single "scr" file download besides the complete "install" package you have now. I know that an install package will add extra files to my system (but won't matter to anyone who already has the "Prolific" install) while a simple file replace will not mess anything up. I believe that the installer must be used at least once (first), to get everything created correctly in the right places, for whatever version of Windows is being used. At least that would be the case for the "average user". In the past, there have been instances where additional operations were required, because of changes in the executable/features/whatever. For instance, Beta 5 required an additional script to fix the registry. The point here is that "just replace the .scr file" might not always be the full procedure. The installer would take care of whatever is needed. In my opinion, asking "average folks" to download a new .scr file and replace the one in system32 is asking a bit much. And, since January 26th (2009) when the Installer version became available for test - Beta 8k - I'm not aware that a bare .scr has been made available (on Serenescreen at least). Finally, at least for SereneScreen, everybody who purchased MA3 has been promised that there will be updates.