Music - Guitar or Piano or both...

Surferminn · 10-11-2008, 11:32 PM

Okay, a friend and I are having a "discussion" about your CanonGuitar music. I say some parts of it really sounds like piano while other parts guitar. My friend insists it's all guitar. Then, trying to be diplomatic, I say it's all academic because both the piano and guitar are string instruments so the sound is coming from metal strings, where the piano strings are being hammered and the guitar is being plucked or strummed. My friend thinks little of my diplomacy and now less of my logic. So can you please confirm if it's both piano and guitar or if it is 100% guitar? Love the piece, either way.

Jim Sachs · 10-11-2008, 11:52 PM

It's 100% acoustic nylon-string guitar. The part that sounds a bit like piano is a section where I play the notes in the chords exactly simultaneously, which is virtually impossible on a guitar, but not on a piano. In most areas of the piece, I delay each higher note, to give a strumming effect. I'll probably tune up the timing a bit, but that's a job near the end of a very long list.

Surferminn · 10-12-2008, 12:18 AM

Oh noooo... I'll have to eat my words now. lol.... Thanks for the answer.

Tiny Turtle · 10-12-2008, 01:49 PM

Busted!

Surferminn · 10-13-2008, 09:16 AM

Yeah, but Jim gave me an out when he said "which is virtually impossible on a guitar, but not on a piano". I can speak to my good ears picking this up.

Jim Sachs · 10-13-2008, 11:05 AM

I'm just glad that I was able to find a good guitar wave sample that's only 120k. Some of them are 10 megs!

Surferminn · 10-13-2008, 11:43 AM

Ok, I'm a little confused here. You played this song on a real live nylon string guitar and recorded it over a wave sample file, right? Not that it matters since I like it nonetheless.

Jim Sachs · 10-13-2008, 12:06 PM

Nope, it's a MIDI instrument with separate waveforms for almost every note. Recording a .WAV file for 5 1/2 minutes of music would make for an incredibly large file. But this way, the MIDI data and the instrument together are only about the size of the texture file for one fish.

For a long time I tried to create a full orchestral version of the Canon, but whenever I got one which sounded good on my Soundblaster Audigy card, it would sound terrible on other machines. This is because a MIDI file is at the mercy of whatever instrument waveforms are packaged with that card or machine. So I needed to package my own waveforms with the file, but soon found out that with so much cheap RAM available these days, no one seems to care that these instruments are HUGE.

So, I scaled back to a single high-quality quitar sound for the default music. Even Cliff doesn't seem to mind it, and he's the world's toughest critic with anything musical. Anyone wishing a full-orchestral version of the Canon can simply download an MP3 file and use that in their Playlist.

cjmaddy · 10-19-2008, 08:00 AM

.... Wow!

I also thought it sounded like there was a piano in there somewhere, at times, (the notes in the centre section sound so percussive).... But there's nothing wrong in that, - is there? ...

Jim Sachs · 10-19-2008, 10:31 AM

Welcome back, Cliff - a bit of catching up to do.

cjmaddy · 10-19-2008, 03:13 PM

Yes!

...... When I switched on my computer yesterday, I was confronted with....

You last visited: 10-11-2008 at 09:19 AM
811 new posts in 109 topics since your last visit!

Marian Nichols · 10-19-2008, 04:00 PM

Doesn't pay to miss a day!

ESHIREY · 10-19-2008, 05:40 PM

I know that feeling. I have over 1400 to catch up on.

Jim Sachs · 10-19-2008, 06:01 PM

Don't miss any - there will be a test!

ESHIREY · 10-19-2008, 06:07 PM

hahahahaha I bet.

Marian Nichols · 10-20-2008, 03:32 AM

Hi Ed, you have been missed. (((also on my site,

)))

ESHIREY · 10-20-2008, 03:23 PM

Well believe me I missed you and everyone else too. I still have so much to do on here yet. I just now got done with all my e-mail. I started this afternoon at 1pm and just got done. Now it's time to eat and rest my eyes for a little bit before I start reading on here next.

10-11-2008, 11:32 PM	#1
Surferminn Senior Puddle Jumper Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: California Posts: 6,017	Music - Guitar or Piano or both... Okay, a friend and I are having a "discussion" about your CanonGuitar music. I say some parts of it really sounds like piano while other parts guitar. My friend insists it's all guitar. Then, trying to be diplomatic, I say it's all academic because both the piano and guitar are string instruments so the sound is coming from metal strings, where the piano strings are being hammered and the guitar is being plucked or strummed. My friend thinks little of my diplomacy and now less of my logic. So can you please confirm if it's both piano and guitar or if it is 100% guitar? Love the piece, either way. Nothing Changes if Nothing Changes.

10-11-2008, 11:52 PM	#2
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	It's 100% acoustic nylon-string guitar. The part that sounds a bit like piano is a section where I play the notes in the chords exactly simultaneously, which is virtually impossible on a guitar, but not on a piano. In most areas of the piece, I delay each higher note, to give a strumming effect. I'll probably tune up the timing a bit, but that's a job near the end of a very long list. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-12-2008, 12:18 AM	#3
Surferminn Senior Puddle Jumper Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: California Posts: 6,017	Oh noooo... I'll have to eat my words now. lol.... Thanks for the answer. Nothing Changes if Nothing Changes.

10-12-2008, 01:49 PM	#4
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Busted! Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

10-13-2008, 09:16 AM	#5
Surferminn Senior Puddle Jumper Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: California Posts: 6,017	Yeah, but Jim gave me an out when he said "which is virtually impossible on a guitar, but not on a piano". I can speak to my good ears picking this up. Nothing Changes if Nothing Changes.

10-13-2008, 11:05 AM	#6
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	I'm just glad that I was able to find a good guitar wave sample that's only 120k. Some of them are 10 megs! Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-13-2008, 11:43 AM	#7
Surferminn Senior Puddle Jumper Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: California Posts: 6,017	Ok, I'm a little confused here. You played this song on a real live nylon string guitar and recorded it over a wave sample file, right? Not that it matters since I like it nonetheless. Nothing Changes if Nothing Changes.

10-13-2008, 12:06 PM	#8
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Nope, it's a MIDI instrument with separate waveforms for almost every note. Recording a .WAV file for 5 1/2 minutes of music would make for an incredibly large file. But this way, the MIDI data and the instrument together are only about the size of the texture file for one fish. For a long time I tried to create a full orchestral version of the Canon, but whenever I got one which sounded good on my Soundblaster Audigy card, it would sound terrible on other machines. This is because a MIDI file is at the mercy of whatever instrument waveforms are packaged with that card or machine. So I needed to package my own waveforms with the file, but soon found out that with so much cheap RAM available these days, no one seems to care that these instruments are HUGE. So, I scaled back to a single high-quality quitar sound for the default music. Even Cliff doesn't seem to mind it, and he's the world's toughest critic with anything musical. Anyone wishing a full-orchestral version of the Canon can simply download an MP3 file and use that in their Playlist. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-19-2008, 08:00 AM	#9
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	.... Wow! I also thought it sounded like there was a piano in there somewhere, at times, (the notes in the centre section sound so percussive).... But there's nothing wrong in that, - is there? ...

10-19-2008, 10:31 AM	#10
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Welcome back, Cliff - a bit of catching up to do. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-19-2008, 03:13 PM	#11
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Yes! ...... When I switched on my computer yesterday, I was confronted with.... You last visited: 10-11-2008 at 09:19 AM 811 new posts in 109 topics since your last visit!

10-19-2008, 04:00 PM	#12
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Doesn't pay to miss a day! Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

10-19-2008, 05:40 PM	#13
ESHIREY Smilie Dragon Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 4,725	I know that feeling. I have over 1400 to catch up on.

10-19-2008, 06:01 PM	#14
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,791	Don't miss any - there will be a test! Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-19-2008, 06:07 PM	#15
ESHIREY Smilie Dragon Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 4,725	hahahahaha I bet.

10-20-2008, 03:32 AM	#16
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Hi Ed, you have been missed. (((also on my site, ))) Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

10-20-2008, 03:23 PM	#17
ESHIREY Smilie Dragon Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lebanon, PA Posts: 4,725	Well believe me I missed you and everyone else too. I still have so much to do on here yet. I just now got done with all my e-mail. I started this afternoon at 1pm and just got done. Now it's time to eat and rest my eyes for a little bit before I start reading on here next.