* Dyed/Recolored Fish *

feldon34 · 06-25-2002, 02:57 PM

Several species of Freshwater Fish are recolored or dyed in cruel and inhumane ways before sale. There is widespread controversy over this abusive process. Many many fish are killed in the process and still others die because of weakened immune systems.

Do you feel that SereneScreen Freshwater Aquarium should or should not have the following species (and others) in re-colored form?

Painted Glass Fish
Colored Skirts (Blue, Red, Purple, etc.)
Painted Tiger and Tinfoil Barbs
Gold Bala Shark
Blood Parrot Cichlid

This really breaks down to, do you feel it would be condoning such practices? Would it encourage or discourage people from buying these fish?

More information on this practice can be found HERE.

IXNAY · 06-26-2002, 04:56 AM

WOW, people do that? Crazy...
Sach's screensavers really save nature, it's really not nice to put fish into a small glascube to watch them...

Tiny Turtle · 06-26-2002, 05:16 AM

Houston, that's a negative...

Putting "unnatural" fish in the tank kinda goes against the idea of the SS being super-realistic if you ask me.

It isn't like there's no other fish to choose from, right?

/Tiny Discoloration

hpman77 · 06-26-2002, 07:06 AM

I think there're many many species of fishies for freshwater and that we have enough to make a huge screensaver, and still miss many of them, so why should be getting those unnatural fishies? If we see unnatural (and tortured) fishies like those, then all the reasons about not allowing users to create fancy fishies would be lost, as definitely, those painted fishies can be seen as real "skins" for fishies.
So, my vote is a NO, never. (also somebody could think "hey, what a nice painted fish in the aquarium! why not go to the nearest pet shop and buy some like that one?" I say no way!)

Lightfeather · 06-26-2002, 01:30 PM

I voted no because, as this screensaver has sparked me to start up a real saltwater aquarium, the freshwater may do the same for others. They may see these "cool" and different fish in the screensaver and decide to get themselves a tank, therefore encouraging the practice of mutilating fish for fashion and supporting those who profit from it.

Here was another "cruel to fish" thing that I was against:

http://www.aquababies.com/

Do. Not. Buy. These.

Here are some stories:

http://www.bettasrus.com/Products/AquaEmail.htm
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~rrhudy1/aquababy.htm
http://www.tpka4a.com/911.html
http://www.rk2000.com/boycott/aquababies.html

The aquababies story is in the middle of this page somewhere:
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwfishfaqs.htm

Tiny Turtle · 06-26-2002, 03:27 PM

Tiny very sad. Tiny becomes even tinier. Tiny decides to do whatever it takes to stop stores from carrying AquaBabies and/or variations if he ever finds it in Swedish stores.

drfish · 06-26-2002, 09:57 PM

Without checking out the site I'm sure I know what those are... Seeing those at kiosks in malls and at Target makes me sick... Haven't seen any around here lately... Whenever I would walk by a place where they were being sold I would make sure to make a very audible negative comment about them...

grape_jellyfish · 06-27-2002, 06:43 PM

I voted no. to make a defensless animal suffer just so they look pleasing to the eye is just plain selfish and cruel. I didn't know they did that until I read the post here about it.

feldon34 · 06-27-2002, 07:25 PM

Yes, but did you vote No because having them in the Freshwater Aquarium encourages people to buy real ones?

grape_jellyfish · 06-28-2002, 05:58 PM

Morgan

I did vote no for the reason I posted above and also because putting them in the screensaver would, in my opinion, promote the sales of those fish.

BlueWinterWaves · 06-29-2002, 02:39 PM

Regarding Aquababies -- I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but after I stupidly bought one in 1999 and subsequently saw that the African frogs and snails in it were getting worse for wear, I transferred all of them into a 10-gallon freshwater tank I already had set up.

The frogs are still alive in that tank (snails died of natural causes after a while).

Rather than throwing out the Aquababies tank, I bought a betta for it. He has been in there for about 2.5 years now (old age for a betta that was already an adult when I bought it), doing just fine. I feed him live blackworms and have plenty of live plants in the tank for him to slink through. I do a 40% water change every week (because there is no filter).

I would not advise putting any other kind of fish in an Aquababies -- certainly not a zebra danio or an African frog, which is what they sell with them. But my betta is perfectly lively and happy in it.

feldon34 · 06-29-2002, 02:59 PM

the Betta can't live with the frogs?

BlueWinterWaves · 06-29-2002, 09:26 PM

Yeah, the betta can live with frogs, but there's no way that the little Aquababies tank can support both a betta and a frog (let alone two frogs).

Or maybe you meant putting the betta in the 10 gallon tank with the frogs. Nope, that tank is completely geared toward tetras -- and the betta would terrorize and/or eat them. Plus, that defeats the purpose of having something in the Aquababies tank. My betta is perfectly happy in there. This betta's natural habitat is puddles. That's right, quite literally puddles in open plains where rain water collects. The water level in these puddles routinely goes down to practically nothing between rains, and the water quality is usually murky at best, extremely muddy at worst. And this particular betta had been living for weeks in a plastic Dixie cup when I bought him. Being in a nice, planted Aquababies tank with clear water every few days is actually a pretty luxurious environment for one of these guys.

Lightfeather · 07-01-2002, 11:07 AM

My theory on small spaces:

Just because something can survive within one doesn't mean you should keep it there.

I have a 5 gallon tank partitioned in half with a glass panel. I have my red betta (Alpha) on one side and my blue betta (Beta) on the other. They love anakras(sp) plants and bloodworms.

Just because you have an empty tiny tank doesn't mean you need to fill it with something.

Just my two cents.

(Alpha and Beta have been with me for 3 years and 2 months now. I can't tell you their age for I don't know how old they were when I rescued them from the teacups that pet stores keep their fish in. They now have a pet of their own. A big snail from one of the plants I got them. He wanders from one side of the tank to the other by climbing out of the water and over the center partition. I call him Gamma. Gamma likes shrimp pellets. Gamma also likes fish poop so I don't think it matters what I feed him.)

Tiny Turtle · 07-01-2002, 12:25 PM

I like your naming scheme, Light...

/Tiny Tank

BlueWinterWaves · 07-01-2002, 07:47 PM

I agree with all of your points, Lightfeather -- which is why I said I would not recommend having any other fish in that small a space other than a betta. My betta, on the other hand, is perfectly fine in there. You can usually tell, with a betta, whether it is happy or whether it is just in "survival mode." The ones in the dixie cups at the LFS are definitely in survival mode (but surviving quite easily, since this actually is not much different from their natural environment). But the fins sag, the betta stays on the bottom of the tank or just hangs at the surface, and there is no bubble-nest blowing.

My betta is always in full-finned form, flashing his great colors, and he gets excited when I walk into the room (suppertime!). He builds nests a lot, and he does all the other "betta" things a healthy, happy one should do.

I do hope that the dividing glass in your 5-gallon tank is opaque, because if they can see each other all day long, that's really stressful to them.

Rexfelis · 07-08-2002, 02:31 AM

as far as the "colored" fish go, i worked in a pet store & i couldn't beleive someone would go to those extremes to make a fish look like that in the first place. i always told the people that were interested in'em, that the color faded after awhile & that usually discouraged them from buying them, but there were always those few that did anyway. oh well, ya do what ya can, lol

Axle · 07-11-2002, 05:40 AM

Well, i am much more learned on the plights of innocent fish versus evil humans >8(

memilm · 07-26-2002, 04:41 AM

Can you post your bettas in their envinronment, Lightfeather and BlueWinterWaves?

BlueWinterWaves · 07-26-2002, 10:17 AM

Unfortunately, I don't have any way to get a digital picture.

What sort of comparison are you trying to make?

View Poll Results: Should SereneScreen Aquarium have 'painted' fish?
Yes, these fish aren't real	3	5.45%
Yes, people will get the SSF Aquarium rather than buy these fish	3	5.45%
Yes (other reason explained below)	1	1.82%
No!	48	87.27%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

06-25-2002, 02:57 PM	#1
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	* Dyed/Recolored Fish * Several species of Freshwater Fish are recolored or dyed in cruel and inhumane ways before sale. There is widespread controversy over this abusive process. Many many fish are killed in the process and still others die because of weakened immune systems. Do you feel that SereneScreen Freshwater Aquarium should or should not have the following species (and others) in re-colored form? Painted Glass Fish Colored Skirts (Blue, Red, Purple, etc.) Painted Tiger and Tinfoil Barbs Gold Bala Shark Blood Parrot Cichlid This really breaks down to, do you feel it would be condoning such practices? Would it encourage or discourage people from buying these fish? More information on this practice can be found HERE. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman Last edited by feldon34; 06-25-2002 at 02:59 PM.

06-26-2002, 04:56 AM	#2
IXNAY Green Frog Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 840	WOW, people do that? Crazy... Sach's screensavers really save nature, it's really not nice to put fish into a small glascube to watch them... IXNAY dreaming of the serene terrarium - My Private Homepage -

06-26-2002, 05:16 AM	#3
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Houston, that's a negative... Putting "unnatural" fish in the tank kinda goes against the idea of the SS being super-realistic if you ask me. It isn't like there's no other fish to choose from, right? /Tiny Discoloration Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

06-26-2002, 07:06 AM	#4
hpman77 Blue Angel Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Santander (Spain) Posts: 285	I think there're many many species of fishies for freshwater and that we have enough to make a huge screensaver, and still miss many of them, so why should be getting those unnatural fishies? If we see unnatural (and tortured) fishies like those, then all the reasons about not allowing users to create fancy fishies would be lost, as definitely, those painted fishies can be seen as real "skins" for fishies. So, my vote is a NO, never. (also somebody could think "hey, what a nice painted fish in the aquarium! why not go to the nearest pet shop and buy some like that one?" I say no way!) .:: AMD Athlon XP 1700+ :: 512MB SDRAM :: Windows XP SP1 :: shappire ATI radeon 9600 PRO :: Soundblaster Live Player 5.1 :: Directx 9.0 :: (Always latest drivers for everything) ::.

06-26-2002, 01:30 PM	#5
Lightfeather Occupation: Nerd Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: California Posts: 314	I voted no because, as this screensaver has sparked me to start up a real saltwater aquarium, the freshwater may do the same for others. They may see these "cool" and different fish in the screensaver and decide to get themselves a tank, therefore encouraging the practice of mutilating fish for fashion and supporting those who profit from it. Here was another "cruel to fish" thing that I was against: http://www.aquababies.com/ Do. Not. Buy. These. Here are some stories: http://www.bettasrus.com/Products/AquaEmail.htm http://userpages.umbc.edu/~rrhudy1/aquababy.htm http://www.tpka4a.com/911.html http://www.rk2000.com/boycott/aquababies.html The aquababies story is in the middle of this page somewhere: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/FWSubWebIndex/fwfishfaqs.htm Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

06-26-2002, 03:27 PM	#6
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Tiny very sad. Tiny becomes even tinier. Tiny decides to do whatever it takes to stop stores from carrying AquaBabies and/or variations if he ever finds it in Swedish stores.

06-26-2002, 09:57 PM	#7
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Without checking out the site I'm sure I know what those are... Seeing those at kiosks in malls and at Target makes me sick... Haven't seen any around here lately... Whenever I would walk by a place where they were being sold I would make sure to make a very audible negative comment about them... I don't watch commercials.

06-27-2002, 06:43 PM	#8
grape_jellyfish Registered Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,235	I voted no. to make a defensless animal suffer just so they look pleasing to the eye is just plain selfish and cruel. I didn't know they did that until I read the post here about it. Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass....It's learning to Dance in the Rain.

06-27-2002, 07:25 PM	#9
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Yes, but did you vote No because having them in the Freshwater Aquarium encourages people to buy real ones? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-28-2002, 05:58 PM	#10
grape_jellyfish Registered Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,235	Morgan I did vote no for the reason I posted above and also because putting them in the screensaver would, in my opinion, promote the sales of those fish. Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass....It's learning to Dance in the Rain.

06-29-2002, 02:39 PM	#11
BlueWinterWaves Registered Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 139	Regarding Aquababies -- I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but after I stupidly bought one in 1999 and subsequently saw that the African frogs and snails in it were getting worse for wear, I transferred all of them into a 10-gallon freshwater tank I already had set up. The frogs are still alive in that tank (snails died of natural causes after a while). Rather than throwing out the Aquababies tank, I bought a betta for it. He has been in there for about 2.5 years now (old age for a betta that was already an adult when I bought it), doing just fine. I feed him live blackworms and have plenty of live plants in the tank for him to slink through. I do a 40% water change every week (because there is no filter). I would not advise putting any other kind of fish in an Aquababies -- certainly not a zebra danio or an African frog, which is what they sell with them. But my betta is perfectly lively and happy in it.

06-29-2002, 02:59 PM	#12
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	the Betta can't live with the frogs? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-29-2002, 09:26 PM	#13
BlueWinterWaves Registered Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 139	Yeah, the betta can live with frogs, but there's no way that the little Aquababies tank can support both a betta and a frog (let alone two frogs). Or maybe you meant putting the betta in the 10 gallon tank with the frogs. Nope, that tank is completely geared toward tetras -- and the betta would terrorize and/or eat them. Plus, that defeats the purpose of having something in the Aquababies tank. My betta is perfectly happy in there. This betta's natural habitat is puddles. That's right, quite literally puddles in open plains where rain water collects. The water level in these puddles routinely goes down to practically nothing between rains, and the water quality is usually murky at best, extremely muddy at worst. And this particular betta had been living for weeks in a plastic Dixie cup when I bought him. Being in a nice, planted Aquababies tank with clear water every few days is actually a pretty luxurious environment for one of these guys.

07-01-2002, 11:07 AM	#14
Lightfeather Occupation: Nerd Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: California Posts: 314	My theory on small spaces: Just because something can survive within one doesn't mean you should keep it there. I have a 5 gallon tank partitioned in half with a glass panel. I have my red betta (Alpha) on one side and my blue betta (Beta) on the other. They love anakras(sp) plants and bloodworms. Just because you have an empty tiny tank doesn't mean you need to fill it with something. Just my two cents. (Alpha and Beta have been with me for 3 years and 2 months now. I can't tell you their age for I don't know how old they were when I rescued them from the teacups that pet stores keep their fish in. They now have a pet of their own. A big snail from one of the plants I got them. He wanders from one side of the tank to the other by climbing out of the water and over the center partition. I call him Gamma. Gamma likes shrimp pellets. Gamma also likes fish poop so I don't think it matters what I feed him.) Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want.

07-01-2002, 12:25 PM	#15
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	I like your naming scheme, Light... /Tiny Tank Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

07-01-2002, 07:47 PM	#16
BlueWinterWaves Registered Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 139	I agree with all of your points, Lightfeather -- which is why I said I would not recommend having any other fish in that small a space other than a betta. My betta, on the other hand, is perfectly fine in there. You can usually tell, with a betta, whether it is happy or whether it is just in "survival mode." The ones in the dixie cups at the LFS are definitely in survival mode (but surviving quite easily, since this actually is not much different from their natural environment). But the fins sag, the betta stays on the bottom of the tank or just hangs at the surface, and there is no bubble-nest blowing. My betta is always in full-finned form, flashing his great colors, and he gets excited when I walk into the room (suppertime!). He builds nests a lot, and he does all the other "betta" things a healthy, happy one should do. I do hope that the dividing glass in your 5-gallon tank is opaque, because if they can see each other all day long, that's really stressful to them.

07-08-2002, 02:31 AM	#17
Rexfelis Registered Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ohio, USA Posts: 13	as far as the "colored" fish go, i worked in a pet store & i couldn't beleive someone would go to those extremes to make a fish look like that in the first place. i always told the people that were interested in'em, that the color faded after awhile & that usually discouraged them from buying them, but there were always those few that did anyway. oh well, ya do what ya can, lol

07-11-2002, 05:40 AM	#18
Axle Registered Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Canberra, Australia Posts: 59	Well, i am much more learned on the plights of innocent fish versus evil humans >8( Axle Foley Avid User of SereneScreen Aquarium

07-26-2002, 04:41 AM	#19
memilm Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: germany Posts: 259	Want to compare bettas... Can you post your bettas in their envinronment, Lightfeather and BlueWinterWaves? Last edited by memilm; 07-26-2002 at 04:44 AM.

07-26-2002, 10:17 AM	#20
BlueWinterWaves Registered Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 139	Unfortunately, I don't have any way to get a digital picture. What sort of comparison are you trying to make?