Flag Burning (Political Commentary)

MadBob · 03-22-2004, 06:22 PM

You would sell it to a lot more people if you added a Burning Flag option

sunny · 03-22-2004, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by MadBob
You would sell it to a lot more people if you added a Burning Flag option

vandalism...

Reichart · 03-22-2004, 08:18 PM

As to vandalism...............yes. But, it is also expression. Digital expression. So is it real if it is digital. No one is hurt, and people would do it to show off for their friends. Perhaps sad, but better than doing it for real.

sunny · 03-22-2004, 11:29 PM

As to vandalism...............yes. But, it is also expression. Digital expression. So is it real if it is digital. No one is hurt, and people would do it to show off for their friends. Perhaps sad, but better than doing it for real.

aren't this against the flagpride theme "show your patriotism".
do you show off your patriotism by burning the flags?
although its in digital works and fun to watch, i don't like the sound of it

Reichart · 03-22-2004, 11:54 PM

2. Q: do you show off your patriotism by burning the flags?

A: Hmmm, don't people ask for God to be on "thier" side in a sports game? Doesn't this mean that the otherside would "not have god?"

Perhaps patriotism for some is both pride in thier own flag, at the expense of everyone elses.

Perhaps some people, like Koreans, just get a kick out of running the Japanese flag up the pole, and burning it! Something they would never do in person, or perhaps even admit in public, but they would never-the-less enjoy doing.

To each thier own, for each thier own kind.

sunny · 03-23-2004, 01:11 AM

Originally posted by Reichart
Hmmm, don't people ask for God to be on "thier" side in a sports game? Doesn't this mean that the otherside would "not have god?"

God does not side anyone...remember that...
People who asked for God's help is just to boost up ones spritual and innerself...it is the physical strength which helps them out...and morallity is important too.
different cultures have different believes so, doesn't mean that there is only one God..
God only help him who only help himself out...

ok ok.. i'm gonna stop this or else i'm like giving a sunday service in church....

in the first place, why you're using this God thing as example?

Reichart · 03-23-2004, 01:39 AM

1. Q: in the first place, why you're using this God thing as example?
A: Because, patriotism and god are similar, they are both arbitrary constructs, opinions. I don’t believe in either, so to have it suggested that patriotism is presented as something substitive, as an argument for a construct just as arbitrary (such as burning a flag, or wearing one as a diaper) seems as ludicrous (to me) as asking for a god to side with one half a whole team. Patriotism is asking for one to side with one half of a whole team.

What comes first, your country, or your earth?

In the grand scale of things, flags separate people, far more than they bring them together. To quote Eddy Izzard,

British Soldier: “We stole countries with the cunning use of flags,” “Yeah. Just sail around the world and stick a flag in. ‘I claim India for Britain!’
Indian: ‘You can’t claim us—we live here! Five hundred million of us!’
Brittish Soldier: ‘Do you have a flag? No flag, no country.’ ”

http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/...atures/n_8450/

Tiny Turtle · 03-23-2004, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by Reichart
. . . As to vandalism...............yes. But, it is also expression. Digital expression. So is it real if it is digital. No one is hurt, and people would do it to show off for their friends. Perhaps sad, but better than doing it for real.

I'm not bothered much by flag burning, but that reasoning is pretty lame, Reichart. Whether or not someone is physically hurt isn't the issue. How about making a game about driving around in D.C. shooting people with a sniper rifle, is that ok? Hey, nobody is hurt... Or did you mean no-one on screen was hurt? Well, let's make a screensaver with U.S. landmarks, wouldn't you love to see Capitoleum cave in, the Golden Gate do a Tacoma or the Statue of Liberty topple? Hey, nobody was hurt, right?

/Tiny Expression

Reichart · 03-23-2004, 01:43 AM

1. Q: I'm not bothered much by flag burning, but that reasoning is pretty lame, Reichart. Whether or not someone is physically hurt isn't the issue. How about making a game about driving around in D.C. shooting people with a sniper rifle, is that ok? Hey, nobody is hurt... Or did you mean no-one on screen was hurt? Well, let's make a screensaver with U.S. landmarks, wouldn't you love to see Capitoleum cave in, the Golden Gate do a Tacoma or the Statue of Liberty topple? Hey, nobody was hurt, right?

A: Correct, right. I can sum this up with one simple statement….

“Ceci n’est pas une pipe.”

If you don’t get it, then you don’t get it.

Tiny Turtle · 03-23-2004, 02:41 AM

No, you flat out can't. Saying that it isn't flag burning, but just a digital replication of flag burning is what I'm questioning, so your Magritte quote won't cut it.

Perhaps you could humour my desire for a more elaborate answer? Please?

P.S. Do you actually believe people would refrain from burning a flag for real given the opportunity to do it on their monitor instead? Can this be applied to other problems as well.

/Tiny Need For Prisons Anymore

bugsymcd24 · 03-23-2004, 04:06 AM

whooooa...things getting a little heated and out of hand here....

peace be with you all...

bugsymcd24 · 03-23-2004, 04:08 AM

how about different back grounds...like fire works on certain holidays..or night sky with spot light on the flag type things?

cjmaddy · 03-23-2004, 05:17 AM

Solution

feldon34 · 03-23-2004, 11:05 AM

Oh dear. I guess Calle doesn't play Grand Theft Auto either.

Tiny Turtle · 03-24-2004, 05:08 AM

Oh, but I do. And believe me, I saw that one coming, but I was just objecting to the reasoning that you can get away with just about anything as long as you call it art/expression.

drfish · 03-24-2004, 05:36 AM

I agree, Tiny. That's a dousy of a can of worms to be opening though... I won't say anything quite yet, maybe this discussion will take a turn for the less controversial... But if it doesn't, I'll try to sneak in a few comments before the thread gets locked...

BTW, I haven't looked at Flags for awhile, not since the demo came out... Has anything major happened with it since then? IS there an ETA other than "soon" for some of the features we've heard mentioned? Forgive my ignorance, I just haven't been paying attention...

Reichart · 03-24-2004, 12:12 PM

1. Q: No, you flat out can't. Saying that it isn't flag burning, but just a digital replication of flag burning is what I'm questioning, so your Magritte quote won't cut it.
A: Yes, this is your opinion.

2. Q: P.S. Do you actually believe people would refrain from burning a flag for real given the opportunity to do it on their monitor instead? Can this be applied to other problems as well.

A: I believe that people do what people want to do, and to a greater degree…what they can get away with. No matter how many times I watch a Road Runner cartoon, I do not act out in any manner to the Road Runner, even if we have very similar personalities.

3. Q: …but I was just objecting to the reasoning that you can get away with just about anything as long as you call it art/expression.
A: Funny, I was reasoning that you were an objectivist…I guess I was wrong LOL

I can save a lot of back and forth here…we simply disagree. You would not like living in my world (a metaphorical construct), and I do not like living in what is already ostensibly your world. In my world there are no “bad” word. There is no censorship, burning flags (for example) has no “list of rules” because it has no real meaning. If you bought the flag, you can burn “your” flag. If there is a 10 for 1 sale, you can build a bonfire.

4. Q: BTW, I haven't looked at Flags for awhile, not since the demo came out... Has anything major happened with it since then? IS there an ETA other than "soon" for some of the features we've heard mentioned? Forgive my ignorance, I just haven't been paying attention...
A: No, just an intellectual bake off. And, be careful, I consider “soon” to be a four letter word…which of course…is why I use it so often.

Reichart · 03-24-2004, 12:14 PM

My Fav commentary ever.

drfish · 03-24-2004, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by Reichart
No, just an intellectual bake off. And, be careful, I consider “soon” to be a four letter word…which of course…is why I use it so often.

I know, that's why I put it in quotes...

cjmaddy · 03-24-2004, 12:37 PM

http://salwen.com/tools.html

03-22-2004, 07:55 PM	#2
sunny Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Penang,Malaysia Posts: 277	Originally posted by MadBob You would sell it to a lot more people if you added a Burning Flag option vandalism... .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(((º>° °o°°Oo°oO° ><(((°>° °<°)))><

03-22-2004, 08:18 PM	#3
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	As to vandalism...............yes. But, it is also expression. Digital expression. So is it real if it is digital. No one is hurt, and people would do it to show off for their friends. Perhaps sad, but better than doing it for real. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc. Last edited by feldon34; 03-31-2004 at 12:16 AM.

03-22-2004, 11:29 PM	#4
sunny Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Penang,Malaysia Posts: 277	As to vandalism...............yes. But, it is also expression. Digital expression. So is it real if it is digital. No one is hurt, and people would do it to show off for their friends. Perhaps sad, but better than doing it for real. aren't this against the flagpride theme "show your patriotism". do you show off your patriotism by burning the flags? although its in digital works and fun to watch, i don't like the sound of it .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(((º>° °o°°Oo°oO° ><(((°>° °<°)))>< Last edited by feldon34; 03-31-2004 at 12:16 AM.

03-22-2004, 11:54 PM	#5
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	2. Q: do you show off your patriotism by burning the flags? A: Hmmm, don't people ask for God to be on "thier" side in a sports game? Doesn't this mean that the otherside would "not have god?" Perhaps patriotism for some is both pride in thier own flag, at the expense of everyone elses. Perhaps some people, like Koreans, just get a kick out of running the Japanese flag up the pole, and burning it! Something they would never do in person, or perhaps even admit in public, but they would never-the-less enjoy doing. To each thier own, for each thier own kind. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc. Last edited by feldon34; 03-31-2004 at 12:17 AM.

03-23-2004, 01:11 AM	#6
sunny Registered Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Penang,Malaysia Posts: 277	Originally posted by Reichart Hmmm, don't people ask for God to be on "thier" side in a sports game? Doesn't this mean that the otherside would "not have god?" God does not side anyone...remember that... People who asked for God's help is just to boost up ones spritual and innerself...it is the physical strength which helps them out...and morallity is important too. different cultures have different believes so, doesn't mean that there is only one God.. God only help him who only help himself out... ok ok.. i'm gonna stop this or else i'm like giving a sunday service in church.... in the first place, why you're using this God thing as example? .¸¸.·´¯`·.¸><(((º>° °o°°Oo°oO° ><(((°>° °<°)))><

03-22-2004, 06:22 PM	#1
MadBob Guitar Man Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancs. UK Posts: 194	You would sell it to a lot more people if you added a Burning Flag option

03-23-2004, 01:39 AM	#7
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	1. Q: in the first place, why you're using this God thing as example? A: Because, patriotism and god are similar, they are both arbitrary constructs, opinions. I don’t believe in either, so to have it suggested that patriotism is presented as something substitive, as an argument for a construct just as arbitrary (such as burning a flag, or wearing one as a diaper) seems as ludicrous (to me) as asking for a god to side with one half a whole team. Patriotism is asking for one to side with one half of a whole team. What comes first, your country, or your earth? In the grand scale of things, flags separate people, far more than they bring them together. To quote Eddy Izzard, British Soldier: “We stole countries with the cunning use of flags,” “Yeah. Just sail around the world and stick a flag in. ‘I claim India for Britain!’ Indian: ‘You can’t claim us—we live here! Five hundred million of us!’ Brittish Soldier: ‘Do you have a flag? No flag, no country.’ ” http://www.newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/...atures/n_8450/ *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-23-2004, 01:40 AM	#8
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Originally posted by Reichart . . . As to vandalism...............yes. But, it is also expression. Digital expression. So is it real if it is digital. No one is hurt, and people would do it to show off for their friends. Perhaps sad, but better than doing it for real. I'm not bothered much by flag burning, but that reasoning is pretty lame, Reichart. Whether or not someone is physically hurt isn't the issue. How about making a game about driving around in D.C. shooting people with a sniper rifle, is that ok? Hey, nobody is hurt... Or did you mean no-one on screen was hurt? Well, let's make a screensaver with U.S. landmarks, wouldn't you love to see Capitoleum cave in, the Golden Gate do a Tacoma or the Statue of Liberty topple? Hey, nobody was hurt, right? /Tiny Expression

03-23-2004, 01:43 AM	#9
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	1. Q: I'm not bothered much by flag burning, but that reasoning is pretty lame, Reichart. Whether or not someone is physically hurt isn't the issue. How about making a game about driving around in D.C. shooting people with a sniper rifle, is that ok? Hey, nobody is hurt... Or did you mean no-one on screen was hurt? Well, let's make a screensaver with U.S. landmarks, wouldn't you love to see Capitoleum cave in, the Golden Gate do a Tacoma or the Statue of Liberty topple? Hey, nobody was hurt, right? A: Correct, right. I can sum this up with one simple statement…. “Ceci n’est pas une pipe.” If you don’t get it, then you don’t get it. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-23-2004, 02:41 AM	#10
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	No, you flat out can't. Saying that it isn't flag burning, but just a digital replication of flag burning is what I'm questioning, so your Magritte quote won't cut it. Perhaps you could humour my desire for a more elaborate answer? Please? P.S. Do you actually believe people would refrain from burning a flag for real given the opportunity to do it on their monitor instead? Can this be applied to other problems as well. /Tiny Need For Prisons Anymore Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

03-23-2004, 04:06 AM	#11
bugsymcd24 PC Professional Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: virginia beach, va Posts: 147	whooooa...things getting a little heated and out of hand here.... peace be with you all...

03-23-2004, 04:08 AM	#12
bugsymcd24 PC Professional Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: virginia beach, va Posts: 147	how about different back grounds...like fire works on certain holidays..or night sky with spot light on the flag type things?

03-23-2004, 05:17 AM	#13
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Solution

03-23-2004, 11:05 AM	#14
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Oh dear. I guess Calle doesn't play Grand Theft Auto either. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

03-24-2004, 05:08 AM	#15
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Oh, but I do. And believe me, I saw that one coming, but I was just objecting to the reasoning that you can get away with just about anything as long as you call it art/expression. Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

03-24-2004, 05:36 AM	#16
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	I agree, Tiny. That's a dousy of a can of worms to be opening though... I won't say anything quite yet, maybe this discussion will take a turn for the less controversial... But if it doesn't, I'll try to sneak in a few comments before the thread gets locked... BTW, I haven't looked at Flags for awhile, not since the demo came out... Has anything major happened with it since then? IS there an ETA other than "soon" for some of the features we've heard mentioned? Forgive my ignorance, I just haven't been paying attention... I don't watch commercials.

03-24-2004, 12:12 PM	#17
Reichart CTO Prolific Publishing Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Maui Posts: 423	1. Q: No, you flat out can't. Saying that it isn't flag burning, but just a digital replication of flag burning is what I'm questioning, so your Magritte quote won't cut it. A: Yes, this is your opinion. 2. Q: P.S. Do you actually believe people would refrain from burning a flag for real given the opportunity to do it on their monitor instead? Can this be applied to other problems as well. A: I believe that people do what people want to do, and to a greater degree…what they can get away with. No matter how many times I watch a Road Runner cartoon, I do not act out in any manner to the Road Runner, even if we have very similar personalities. 3. Q: …but I was just objecting to the reasoning that you can get away with just about anything as long as you call it art/expression. A: Funny, I was reasoning that you were an objectivist…I guess I was wrong LOL I can save a lot of back and forth here…we simply disagree. You would not like living in my world (a metaphorical construct), and I do not like living in what is already ostensibly your world. In my world there are no “bad” word. There is no censorship, burning flags (for example) has no “list of rules” because it has no real meaning. If you bought the flag, you can burn “your” flag. If there is a 10 for 1 sale, you can build a bonfire. 4. Q: BTW, I haven't looked at Flags for awhile, not since the demo came out... Has anything major happened with it since then? IS there an ETA other than "soon" for some of the features we've heard mentioned? Forgive my ignorance, I just haven't been paying attention... A: No, just an intellectual bake off. And, be careful, I consider “soon” to be a four letter word…which of course…is why I use it so often. *Reichart...* , CTO, Prolific Publishing, Inc. Come visit us Prolific Publishing, Inc.

03-24-2004, 12:18 PM	#19
drfish the Doc Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Zeeland, MI Posts: 5,357	Originally posted by Reichart No, just an intellectual bake off. And, be careful, I consider “soon” to be a four letter word…which of course…is why I use it so often. I know, that's why I put it in quotes... I don't watch commercials.

03-24-2004, 12:37 PM	#20
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	http://salwen.com/tools.html