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Old 06-07-2001, 07:48 AM   #1
Tiny Turtle
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SS locks up keyboard

I just discovered that when I run the SS in a window (always on top activated) I can't start a new Windows Explorer using the [Win] + [E] keyboard shortcut. As soon as I close down the aquarium it works again. This occurs both with .99K and the Widescreen version. Anybody else experienced this problem?

/Calle

I'm using Win 98SE (Swedish) on a AMD K6-2 (333MHz) with 128 MB RAM and a Millenium G200. Resolution is 1280x1024@85Hz on a Nokia 446Xpro.
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 06-07-2001, 12:40 PM   #2
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Re: SS locks up keyboard

I have a smart key-board, and all shortcut/function keys work perfectly with screensaver in window mode and full screen , 98se/2K and also on my me and 95 machines - one thing u can look at is make sure ur key is still pointing to the funtion like www.yahoo.com or whatever u want it to function as or it wont work no-matter what
i did have to reset my key functions (predefine) them after installing the saver .now all works fine.
~RELAXATION IS WHAT IT'S ALL ABOUT~
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Old 06-07-2001, 12:55 PM   #3
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Re: SS locks up keyboard

Windows - E is built into the operating system and cannot be changed. I just tested .99K wide and hit Win-E and it worked fine.

Not that I've ever used Windows Explorer. I guess that's because I never used Windows 3.1 on my own computer; I started with Macintosh and then went to Windows 95, so I open My Computer and open multiple windows.
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Old 06-07-2001, 01:31 PM   #4
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Re: SS locks up keyboard


<snip>
so I open My Computer and open multiple windows.
</snip>

How have you managed to remain sane?
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Old 06-07-2001, 07:52 PM   #5
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Re: SS locks up keyboard

If you sit down and read some of the highly-regarded User Interface Design manuals, you'll find that File Manager/Windows Explorer goes against every principle in the book. File Manager/Windows Explorer (I consider them largely the same thing) was buried from view after Windows 3.1. Microsoft realized that it was a mistake and that it was non-intuitive. It's not the only bad idea of Windows 3.1 that was deleted, and File Manager/Windows Explorer was left in (you press Windows-E), but it's certainly the one bad idea that millions of users have clung onto.

Microsoft has got you guys trying to navigate a hard drive in a single two-paned window. I have tried to work that way and it totally goes against the way my brain works. I don't think on one level. I don't just think of all the items in my apartment. I think of all the boxes in my apartment and WHERE the items are WITHIN each box. It's called progressive exposure. In the 1970's, the behavioral psychologists got together with the computer guys and came up with User Interface Guidelines. They came up with the idea of progressively exploring deeper into folders and other containers. Basically recreating reality in the computer.

Then Windows 1.0, 2.0, and 3.0 (most people never saw 1 or 2) comes along with this flat view of your data and everyone has jumped on like a lemming and approaches things that way. No wonder new people are scared of computers--they demand they think in a way diametrically opposed to the way the human brain is engineered.

The basic distinction for me can be broken down to exploring a file cabinet.

Some people open a file cabinet and flip through the folders to find a file. Once they find the folder, they open it, but keep it in the file cabinet and just fish out the proper piece of paper.

Some people find the folder, pull the folder out, put it on their desk, and THEN examine the contents. Then they leave that folder on their desk until they are completely done with it.

Windows Explorer is type 1. These people SHOULD have clean desks if their mind is working the same as their operating system. They should be focused on ONE project at a time and only have one task on their desk at a time.

Exploring through My Computer with the stupid "open each window within this window" setting turned off is what I consider type 2. I always have several pending projects on my desk, and likewise on my screen. If someone calls me and asks me to work on something right now, I don't panic, I just push the other folders to the side (and correspondingly, minimize the folders on my screen) and put the new one front-and-center.

I don't think I can express strongly enough how much I hate Windows Explorer. The only time I brush with anything close to its madness is the Open and Save dialog boxes each program uses. I rarely use the Open command in most programs, preferring to switch back to the file folder I have open on the desktop and double-click on the appropriate file, or drag that file to the open Application window.

How many times have you saved a file into the wrong folder? If it's a lot, then that's proof that Explorer/Open/Save boxes are non-intuitive. It should be clear exactly which project folder things are getting filed into. If anything, I'd like an OS where you get MORE feedback about this.
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Old 06-07-2001, 11:36 PM   #6
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Re: SS locks up keyboard

I knew there was somethiing about you I liked Feldon. I have the exact same feelings about windows. I don't remember 1.0, but I do remember 2.0. That was a joke. The most annoying interface I have ever seen! But it was about the time Apple was suing everyone and his brother for the "look and feel", so MS hands were tied for a while.

I too used Apples. I had Apple II's, and the IIGS had the same interface as the Mac. That interface was very, human feeling. A natural way to interact I thought. I always hated DOS, it did have its strong points, but only in a programming sort of way. DOS was powerful, if you liked to program, and learn the code and lingo. Apples OS was friendly.

I especially like Apples way of designating drives via path names, instead of letters or numbers. It didn't matter what drive a disk was in, because the OS didn't see the drives, but saw the path names. Like "\myCD\work\projects.doc" The OS remembers what disk "name" is in each drive. Worked a lot better. How many times have you put a CD in E: drive, only to find out its got to be in D: drive to work. Oh, and then there are companies like Compaq, where the CD drive is "Q" instead of the next open drive letter, D: in most cases, causing all sorts of other problems.

Apple based its OS on standards, something Micro$oft is still trying to learn.
Bob

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Old 06-08-2001, 07:05 AM   #7
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Re: SS locks up keyboard

Next week, I'll publish a list, based on my using G4s at work for graphic design every day for the last month, of all the flaws Macintosh hasn't addressed in the last 10 years that Microsoft has.

Yes, Windows 98 and Windows 2000 have long surpassed Mac OS. (And no, we haven't tried Mac OS X yet because none of the design apps we use have been recompiled for it)
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Old 06-08-2001, 02:41 PM   #8
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Mzc OS X

Look forward to reading it, Feldon. I would like to see how the new OS X (ten) holds up.
Bob

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Old 06-09-2001, 09:37 AM   #9
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Re: SS locks up keyboard

If I could go back to my original question instead of praising the Apple way of thinking...

What OS are you using, Morgan? So far, I've tried it on my own Win98SE, a Win98 machine and a WinME one and it doesn't work on either one. As soon as I close the SS window [Win] + [E] works again.

/Calle

Ahh, what the heck! Even though I complained about the discussion swerving of in the wrong direction, I can't help picking up the thrown glove and offer a retort:

I do quite a lot of work MacOS 9 on G4's as well and it does have some advantages. I believe both ways has their respective pros and cons and I must say I've never (OK, almost never) saved a file in the wrong folder.

As for having multiple projects running at the same time: Most Mac users I know seem to dislike the [Alt] + [Tab] function which enables me to have multiple projects - and multiple Windows Explorers - running at the same time. A typical session on my computer has three or four Explorers running simultaneously and are all easily available via [Alt] + [Tab].

To consider the File Manager and Windows Explorer the same thing is IMHO not that clever. Ol' 3.11 was a non-multitasking system (which truly sucked green toe, btw.) and didn't allow the user any freedom at all. Personally, I went directly from The Amiga and "Directory Opus" to the Windows Explorer back in '95 and it took me around two or three weeks to get used to (and appreciate) the new interface.

The important point about getting things done quickly is IMHO to use the keyboard. In the Windows Explorer you can open a folder using [Enter], but also go to the parent directory with [Backspace]. These two, combined with the arrow keys and the ability to select files with [Shift] + [Arrow], makes file-managing way faster than a mouse-only interface allows.

For people interested in whether "Type 1" or "Type 2" thinking is better, I recommend "Designing the User Interface - Strategies for Effective Human-Computer Interaction" by Ben Shneiderman of the University of Maryland. It has some interesting ideas about interfaces which just so happens to claim the opposite of Morgan's version.

Hopefully that didn't come out to harsh - English isn't my native tongue - and perhaps someone could tell me how to solve the original problem, It can't be just me experiencing it on three different computers, huh?
Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think.

"We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.'
I suppose we all thought that, one way or another.
" /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.
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Old 06-09-2001, 09:45 PM   #10
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Re: Mac OS X

Not to stretch this out any further, but I ran across the following article while surfing and thought it might be of some intrest.

OS Death Match

It features OS X and Win2K.
Hello...Welcome to the Police 9-1-1 Hotline..." If you are obsessive-compulsive, press 1 repeatedly. If you are codependant, ask someone to press 2. If you are a multiple personality, press 3, 4, 5, and 6. If you are paranoid, we know who you are and we are tracing this call. If you are schizophrenic, a little voice will tell you what to do. If you are depressed, it doesn't matter which # you push it will be wrong anyway.
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Old 06-09-2001, 10:46 PM   #11
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Re: Mac OS X

An important point is that Windows 2000 runs, largely unchaged, most software written since 1995.

Mac OS X once again requires developers to rewrite large portions of their software and recompile. This is the 2nd such time Mac developers have had to overhaul their software just to keep it running at the same level/degree of compatibility in 6 years. (The last time was PowerPC)

So I could install Mac OS X right now, but EVERY application I run would run in the Mac OS 9 compatibility layer. The only improvement would be file sharing and not having to hard-reboot if the Mac OS 9 part locks up. Not worth it yet. Lemme know when Photoshop, Illustrator, and Quark are ported to Mac OS X codebase.
"Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell
"If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman
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Old 06-10-2001, 07:27 AM   #12
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Win 1.0

He he I've still got Windows 1.01 somewhere on floppy disc I zipped the original 360k 5.25" floppys up and copied them onto a 3.5" can't seem to throw anything away just in case, mind you try to find them when you need them and you might as well have chucked them

for those of you who never saw Win 1.0 take a look at the Dos Shell in DOS 5.0 it was worse than that!

and It isn't installable on any hard drive larger than 32 meg still it might come in handy one day
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Old 06-11-2001, 09:04 PM   #13
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Re: Win 1.0

Speaking of the archaic OSes... A lot of people don't realize, that now with the powerful CPU's we have you can emulate ANY of those old 8/16 bit computers.

For those of you unfamiliar with emulation... it simply means you can buy/download software that will make your PC run as if it is a Commadore 64, or an Apple IIe, or even an Atari 2600! A buddy of mine has EVERY Atari 2600 game, saved to a single CD, and can play them all on his personal computer. Other than using a keyboard as a controller, you can't tell a difference.

So, I'll bet, you could run Windows 1.0 in a DOS window on a Window 9x machine. Not that anyone would want to, but for nostalgia's sake.
Bob

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Old 06-25-2001, 02:55 PM   #14
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Multiple Explorer Windows

Sorry if I annoy anyone by continuing with this line, but I missed most of the discussion since my last post because I forgot which topic I had posted on - the perils of posting off topic.

Feldon, I was a bit over zealous criticising you for working with multiple windows. I agree that multiple windows are neccessary but I start with explorer and open extra windows from there only when needed and usually open up the folder tree in each of those as well. I like to keep the number of open windows to a minimum abd find that the folder tree often prevents the need for a further window. I can't think of any reason for opening up standard My Computer windows when an explorer windows offers all the same benefits plus loads more.

<snip>...
Exploring through My Computer with the stupid "open each window within this window" setting turned off is what I consider type 2.
..</snip>

This stupid setting is the first thing I switch on whenever I use a new computer. I can't stand it when I open up 10 windows just to reach one file which is several levels down in the directory tree. If I need another window I can right-click and choose 'open in new window'

Just my 2 cents ( or rather 2 pence)

My first computer was an Acorn Archimedes running the RISC OS operating system. IMHO the User Interface on this was streaks ahead of anything on the Apple or PC at the time.
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