Can we Have a WIP Thread?

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A lot of other projects I am interested in have WIP pages in which they show and describe what they are currently working on, either something that is working well or has been thrown away as a bad idea including pictures etc.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am slightly losing interest without some update.

This all happened when Jim announced the Freshwater tank. This is when both projects seem to have slowed considerably. At least before, fish were being added to the Marine Screensaver every so often with pictures of potential textures and photos etc on threads.

Now it seems that both the Marine and the Fresh water screensavers have almost grounded to a halt in terms of development. Obviously this isn’t true....but without updates and a WIP page, we all can see what is being done and problems or breakthroughs can be seen and would keep us all up to date and interested once more.

Personally, I thought at first the Freshwater Tank was a good idea, in retrospect, I think it will not sell aswell due to its overall look compared to the Marine Aquarium. All Tropical/Freshwater fish by comparison are washed out colour wise and are not quite as interesting to look at. Plus with all the coral and so forth, the marine Aquarium looks so beautiful.

Right now we have a fully working Marine Aquarium and no Freshwater at all. Since the marine needs work, and by that I mean very hard work to convert old DirectX code to version 9, it would be better to finish off the Marine completely and create the 3D background where I think sales of this screensaver is going to boom. I am so looking forward to this next element of the screensaver.

I know this is a bit of moan, but I am a huge fan of this project and really want it to develop further but not at the cost of the other holding it back.

[Ralph]

Good idea but I doubt you will get those in the know to commit to any hints of progress.

It is my understanding that there will be no more work done on the 3D background for MA until the Freshwater Aquarium is done. Right, Jim?
As far as FA having washed out colors and uninteresting fish, I think not. Remember, this will be a creation of Jim Sachs.

[Jim Sachs]

Well, that's one of the problems, making it interesting enough to rival the saltwater tank. One way I had planned to do this was to have much more extensive fish movement. My old method of creating and saving the fish models didn't really support this, and I'm currently stuck trying to come up with a new one.

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Originally posted by Jim Sachs
One way I had planned to do this was to have much more extensive fish movement.

I'm currently stuck trying to come up with a new one.

Jim,

In terms of movement, can't you pinch the goldfish routine from Prolific [Edit] and modify it?

I come back to the forum to see whats going on, and I see no updates or pictures just general chit chat which is fine. This seems to of happened since Serene took over the sales side of things. After much talk of the 3D background and moving clamshells and moving sea anemones, this is where I see huge huge sales.

Isnt it worth bringing in someone to upgrade the code to DX9c and create thd 3D background? Some iniital outlay will have great results once this is complete. Ok its taken away some of your control and creativity but you coudl then change some aspects of it once its complete. You coudl still do the textures if not the actual code and thats where your talents are.....graphics.

As your still stumped with the Freshwater tank can we rethink moving back to the Saltwater? Thats where all your fans are currently. Thats why everyone one knows your name in "Cheers" fashion.

[drfish]

I'm looking forward to the Freshwater, a lot! There's a better chance of getting digital versions of fish I've kept before that way...

[Tiny Turtle]

Just to clarify, it's "Prolific", not "Serene". Carry on.

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Originally posted by drfish
I'm looking forward to the Freshwater, a lot! There's a better chance of getting digital versions of fish I've kept before that way...

DrFish,

Don't get me wrong, I would love a Freshwater Screensaver too, but as Jim has already admitted he's stumped.

On another thread he says this about it and I quote: "If I can't break new ground with the Freshwater tank, then it's not worth doing."

Now this maybe Jim's own frustration coming through rather than potentially Jim just giving up on it. But then again it has been such a long time since this project was started.

I also think that amalgamating both MA and MAT projects together should be something to consider aswell whilst the Freshwater Tank isn’t going anywhere fast. This will make it so much easier to update one single project than updating 2 or 3 or even 4 if you include the widescreen edition.

At the end of the day, it would seem that the Freshwater tank isn’t coming any time soon. So lets get back to Jim’s original passion, The Marine Saltwater tank and get one project fully completed to what Jim’s original vision was.

In the mean time, Jim can take his time and think about the Freshwater tank and come up with some new fish movement routines.

Oh and thanks TT for the correction! I forgot it was Prolific! DOH!

[Jim Sachs]

Although I have considered going back to the Marine tank, I'm immediately faced with the same problem - coming up with a better way of transforming Lightwave objects to DirectX objects.

I can't use the Goldish movement for 3 reasons: It belongs to Prolific, goldfish don't move like other fish, and their models use far more polygons than I am willing to accept.

Regarding the idea of farming out part of the work to other people - what portion of YOUR hobbies to you farm out to others?

[feldon34]

I think if I want to see Freshwater fish by the end of 2004, I am going to have to lock Jim and the Lightwave development team in a room for 4 hours.

[drfish]

Only 4 hours? You do realize it's almost October, don't you?

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Originally posted by Jim Sachs
Regarding the idea of farming out part of the work to other people - what portion of YOUR hobbies to you farm out to others?

As a Forensic Expert in Video and Audio, I farm out work all the time in an attempt to please my client to provide good service and expertise. Some jobs I am unable to perform in certain areas such as Photography and therefore to ensure I don't land up with egg on my face, I farm it to someone who can do the work. Which makes perfect business sense.

This project ONCE was a hobby, its far from one at this stage especially when Prolific has taken over the sales and some of the admin side of things.

If you let go of the reigns for certain jobs you might make a huge breakthrough you have been looking for. Nobody on this website expects you to have all the answers especially me. I appreciate everything you have achieved with the Marine Aquarium; it's simply the best on the market......but could be so much more.

The day the 3D background arrives I will be over the moon. At the moment I see it slowly slipping away into the distance and nothing to show for the Freshwater its hard to feel slightly disappointed as fan of this screensaver.

[feldon34]

Originally posted by drfish
Only 4 hours? You do realize it's almost October, don't you?

What Jim needs is a transparent way to work with an object sometimes as a whole and sometimes in groups. He needs to be able to add rotation and transformation centerpoints to a larger object which only certain vertices respond to and with different percentages. It is inverse kinematics with some more complexity thrown in.

I have no doubt that Pixar, PDI, and Dreamworks are doing this yet I see games and screen savers struggle (and usually fail) to do this well. What A guru of this type of animation needs to help Jim write DirectX code that does this on-the-fly without bringing a PC to its knees.

Do I think the theory could be hammered out in 4 hours? Absolutely.
Do I think Jim write code that does what I've described above without using some Algebra and Geometry and some communication with Newtek (creators of Lightwave)? Miracles occur, but who can build a business model on that?

[drfish]

I was thinking along the lines of figuring all that out and then enslaving the Lightwave team to help Jim finish it by the end of the year... 4 hours for the first part? Sure, I don't know... 3 months to finish after that? I'm inclined to think not.

Not that I'm upset about it or anything, he can take all the time he needs. This is where his policy of no release dates is great, you can't have a delay if you don't set a date.

[feldon34]

Jim does not feel comfortable either sharing or using someone else's code. So that brings us back to sitting down in a room with a whiteboard and sketching out what it's going to take to do this.

[Marian Nichols]

(deep breath and a long sigh), I will be patience, and in the mean time I am spending money on other aquarium screen savers that do not perform and often leave me very dissatisfied.

[feldon34]

Having cooked many turnips in my time, there is no blood to be found in there unless you slip with the knife. Jim, wear gloves!

[AKcrab]

I'm sure this has been covered, but what software is being used for rendering? What format are the objects saved in?

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JIm,

I think from the resposes above, you can tell that other poeple have some of the same views as myself.

Furthermore, and more importantly, your fans want to help you.

Listen to your customers......take on board what people are suggesting.

More importantly take the hand of friendship that feldon and others are offering you....it doesnt come around too often!

[feldon34]

Originally posted by AKcrab
I'm sure this has been covered, but what software is being used for rendering? What format are the objects saved in?

The fish are created in Lightwave. They are exported in DirectX format which Jim cleans up for importation into the Aquarium. The DirectX file he loads is a bit different from your usual DirectX file because it contains a frame of animation (the fish in a bent state).