MA1.1 and Panther

11-01-2003, 12:38 PM

I paid for MA1.1 and do not want to upgrade to MA2.0. Why do I need to pay $6 to get my bubbles to work. Is there an update to MA1.1 to fix the OpenGL problem? Please tell me where to download it. Either that or offer a free upgrade to 2.0 (3 extra fish aren't worth $6 to me

Maybe it would be worth $6 if I could edit/import more fish from a 3D program...

JimO'Connor · 11-01-2003, 01:33 PM

There was a window of time when you could upgrade from version 1 to verion 2 free of charge. I'm sorry that -6- extra fish and an improved UI aren't worth $6 to you. We all have to make our choices of what is worth our time/effort/money and what isn't.

11-02-2003, 07:09 PM

Don't get me wrong about the upgrade. I am happy with just a few of the fish, and the original API was sweet. I just don't want you guys to turn into Microsoft (charging for bug fix releases).

Take Apple for example. They still fix bugs in OS9 even though OSX had 2 major revisions (OS9.2.2 came out when they already shipped 10.1 and 10.2). I am only looking for a patch to get my bubbles. As a professional software developer myself, a patch for an older release could be real straight forward (assuming you have source code revision control). Sounds like you isolated the bug to the OpenGL API so a recompile could be easy.

Aladdin got burned when Apple change the API for the filesystem and got all holy. Not Aladdins fault, but it made them looks silly when OS8.6 (methinks) came out and the Stuffit suite fell on its face.

As far as the free upgrade goes. I think that was a good deal to offer folks. Since I bought MA1.1 this summer, I doubt that window is open. Is there anything newer than MA1.1 that is even Beta quality? I know you all probably moved on, heck, I would want to to...

11-02-2003, 07:11 PM

Another two things....

1) My bad. 6 Fish!
2) How about a fish editor?

It'd be neat to have Bart Simpson swimming around in the aquarium!

JimO'Connor · 11-02-2003, 10:51 PM

Hi Unregistered.

May I suggest that you turn off the bubble column on v1 for Panther? It is a simple and easy work-around for a non-terminal bug in a lapsed version of a product running on a new OS.

Jim Sachs owns the Marine Aquarium content as the original developer and artist. He has a very strong opinion about what goes into his aquarium and you'd need to take up the editor with him. Many user suggestions are worked into future updates and versions, but anything which makes the aquarium look less real is a non-starter with him. I learned that early on, and I respect that.

The publisher gave a 90 day window after v2 shipped for any user who ever bought v1 to upgrade to v2 free of charge. I'm sorry that didn't help you.

The engineering work for the Panther fix for v2 was about 5% of MY time involved with getting it to users. The engineering work for getting v1 on Panther would be identical, as would the 95% of the time getting the release out. It simply isn't practical. You are welcome to view the histories of our engineers at the Order N Development web site to see our experience in this industry.

Again, I'm sorry that the 3 months of free upgrade time didn't help you, and I'm sorry that the extra 6 fish and new UI don't merit $6 from you. Hopefully turning off the bubbles will suffice until we hit the level of new functionality which will merit your patronage again.

patscarr · 11-03-2003, 08:22 AM

Bart Simpson, any other cartoon fish, or as JimO'Connor put it "anything which makes the aquarium look less real," will never rear it's ugly head in these aquariums unless they come from some hack job.

Tiny Turtle · 11-03-2003, 09:08 AM

Whether the head reared is ugly or not could very well lie in the eye of the beholder, Pat...

/Tiny Duality

feldon34 · 11-03-2003, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by Unregistered
Don't get me wrong about the upgrade. I am happy with just a few of the fish, and the original API was sweet. I just don't want you guys to turn into Microsoft (charging for bug fix releases).

Actually, Microsoft releases free service packs for their operating systems. They've had SIX service packs for Windows NT4, FOUR for Windows 2000, and ONE for XP.

In contrast, Apple has put out Jaguar (10.2) and Panther (10.3), and charged $130 for each of them.

Originally posted by Unregistered
Take Apple for example. They still fix bugs in OS9 even though OSX had 2 major revisions (OS9.2.2 came out when they already shipped 10.1 and 10.2).

And Microsoft keeps putting out service packs.

JimO'Connor · 11-03-2003, 11:46 AM

Apple released 10.2.1 - 10.2.8 after Jaguar. These would be the equivalents of Service Packs. Some are required to support new hardware (10.2.7 was for the G5). Anyone want to make any bets on what the threshold is for getting changes into a 10.2.9 release is? I'd guess it would be something on the order of exploded displays or CDs embeddedin users foreheads.

Apple updated 9 briefly while it was waiting on adoption of 10. However, I seem to recall a big coffin on a WWDC stage with Mr. Jobs talking about 9 being dead. After that Apple has spent time updating 9 only to keep it working with new OS X releases in order to keep from losing customers married to OS 9 -- like educational customers. Apple's DTS engineers have made it clear that bugs filed against 9 are a waste of time.

We could ask owners of iMac 400's with ATI cards about how Apple fixs bugs in abandoned products. It doesn't. Those problems have been a big headache for us and our users but there is nothing we can do about driver level issues. iMac 400 owners didn't get 90 days to upgrade to iMac 400++ free.

This is not to dump on Apple (other than the iMac 400 problem), it is to show the landscape.

11-01-2003, 12:38 PM	#1
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	MA1.1 and Panther I paid for MA1.1 and do not want to upgrade to MA2.0. Why do I need to pay $6 to get my bubbles to work. Is there an update to MA1.1 to fix the OpenGL problem? Please tell me where to download it. Either that or offer a free upgrade to 2.0 (3 extra fish aren't worth $6 to me Maybe it would be worth $6 if I could edit/import more fish from a 3D program...

11-01-2003, 01:33 PM	#2
JimO'Connor Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kenai, Alaska Posts: 678	There was a window of time when you could upgrade from version 1 to verion 2 free of charge. I'm sorry that -6- extra fish and an improved UI aren't worth $6 to you. We all have to make our choices of what is worth our time/effort/money and what isn't. Jim O'Connor Order N Development

11-02-2003, 10:51 PM	#5
JimO'Connor Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kenai, Alaska Posts: 678	Hi Unregistered. May I suggest that you turn off the bubble column on v1 for Panther? It is a simple and easy work-around for a non-terminal bug in a lapsed version of a product running on a new OS. Jim Sachs owns the Marine Aquarium content as the original developer and artist. He has a very strong opinion about what goes into his aquarium and you'd need to take up the editor with him. Many user suggestions are worked into future updates and versions, but anything which makes the aquarium look less real is a non-starter with him. I learned that early on, and I respect that. The publisher gave a 90 day window after v2 shipped for any user who ever bought v1 to upgrade to v2 free of charge. I'm sorry that didn't help you. The engineering work for the Panther fix for v2 was about 5% of MY time involved with getting it to users. The engineering work for getting v1 on Panther would be identical, as would the 95% of the time getting the release out. It simply isn't practical. You are welcome to view the histories of our engineers at the Order N Development web site to see our experience in this industry. Again, I'm sorry that the 3 months of free upgrade time didn't help you, and I'm sorry that the extra 6 fish and new UI don't merit $6 from you. Hopefully turning off the bubbles will suffice until we hit the level of new functionality which will merit your patronage again. Jim O'Connor Order N Development

11-03-2003, 08:22 AM	#6
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	Bart Simpson, any other cartoon fish, or as JimO'Connor put it "anything which makes the aquarium look less real," will never rear it's ugly head in these aquariums unless they come from some hack job. Patrick

11-03-2003, 09:08 AM	#7
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Whether the head reared is ugly or not could very well lie in the eye of the beholder, Pat... /Tiny Duality Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

11-02-2003, 07:09 PM	#3
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	Don't get me wrong about the upgrade. I am happy with just a few of the fish, and the original API was sweet. I just don't want you guys to turn into Microsoft (charging for bug fix releases). Take Apple for example. They still fix bugs in OS9 even though OSX had 2 major revisions (OS9.2.2 came out when they already shipped 10.1 and 10.2). I am only looking for a patch to get my bubbles. As a professional software developer myself, a patch for an older release could be real straight forward (assuming you have source code revision control). Sounds like you isolated the bug to the OpenGL API so a recompile could be easy. Aladdin got burned when Apple change the API for the filesystem and got all holy. Not Aladdins fault, but it made them looks silly when OS8.6 (methinks) came out and the Stuffit suite fell on its face. As far as the free upgrade goes. I think that was a good deal to offer folks. Since I bought MA1.1 this summer, I doubt that window is open. Is there anything newer than MA1.1 that is even Beta quality? I know you all probably moved on, heck, I would want to to...

11-02-2003, 07:11 PM	#4
Unregistered Guest Posts: n/a	Another two things.... 1) My bad. 6 Fish! 2) How about a fish editor? It'd be neat to have Bart Simpson swimming around in the aquarium!

11-03-2003, 11:09 AM	#8
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Originally posted by Unregistered Don't get me wrong about the upgrade. I am happy with just a few of the fish, and the original API was sweet. I just don't want you guys to turn into Microsoft (charging for bug fix releases). Actually, Microsoft releases free service packs for their operating systems. They've had SIX service packs for Windows NT4, FOUR for Windows 2000, and ONE for XP. In contrast, Apple has put out Jaguar (10.2) and Panther (10.3), and charged $130 for each of them. Originally posted by Unregistered Take Apple for example. They still fix bugs in OS9 even though OSX had 2 major revisions (OS9.2.2 came out when they already shipped 10.1 and 10.2). And Microsoft keeps putting out service packs. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

11-03-2003, 11:46 AM	#9
JimO'Connor Mac Development Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Kenai, Alaska Posts: 678	Apple released 10.2.1 - 10.2.8 after Jaguar. These would be the equivalents of Service Packs. Some are required to support new hardware (10.2.7 was for the G5). Anyone want to make any bets on what the threshold is for getting changes into a 10.2.9 release is? I'd guess it would be something on the order of exploded displays or CDs embeddedin users foreheads. Apple updated 9 briefly while it was waiting on adoption of 10. However, I seem to recall a big coffin on a WWDC stage with Mr. Jobs talking about 9 being dead. After that Apple has spent time updating 9 only to keep it working with new OS X releases in order to keep from losing customers married to OS 9 -- like educational customers. Apple's DTS engineers have made it clear that bugs filed against 9 are a waste of time. We could ask owners of iMac 400's with ATI cards about how Apple fixs bugs in abandoned products. It doesn't. Those problems have been a big headache for us and our users but there is nothing we can do about driver level issues. iMac 400 owners didn't get 90 days to upgrade to iMac 400++ free. This is not to dump on Apple (other than the iMac 400 problem), it is to show the landscape. Jim O'Connor Order N Development