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GreenHsiF · 06-30-2003, 07:47 PM

Let me change my question.Will there be an option to see the whole aquarium,instead of parts of it with the pan feature?
I know what ever features and fish gets put in this aquarium will be good because Jim puts the best in,not like those other screensavers out there.

feldon34 · 06-30-2003, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by GreenHsiF
Let me change my question.Will there be an option to see the whole aquarium

Not from what I saw. Maybe if you run it in a window.

Ralph · 06-30-2003, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by feldon27
I can tell you the Goldfish Aquarium will have to play catch-up.

Was the GA ever ahead?

Jim Sachs · 06-30-2003, 11:13 PM

The Freshwater Tank is a little less than 2 normal screens wide. If you have a normal-aspect monitor, that camera can pan (dolly, actually) back and forth within this wider environment. It can do this either automatically or manually. If set to manual, the camera will simply stay where you put it.

If you have a wide screen, then however much of the tank fits on your screen will simply show up. The remainder can be scrolled back and forth.

Someday, dual monitors might be supported with the left half of the tank on one screen and the right half on the other - if I ever learn how to do dual-screen.

Socrates · 06-30-2003, 11:39 PM

I am going to be really disappointed if I cannot use a wide aspect ratio on my normal aspect ratio monitor. Something I can do with the MA Wide Version.

My card does those ratios, and on this 19" they look fine with bars at top and bottom, so I hope the new programs will not exclude me from using them.

feldon34 · 07-01-2003, 12:06 AM

I think you should be able to request 1280x720 or 1920x1080 just like you do with MA now.

Socrates · 07-01-2003, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by feldon27
I can tell you the Goldfish Aquarium will have to play catch-up.

Howmuch though?

How far does Prolific go in terms of taking Jim's code and putting it into the general pool for developing the GA?

Socrates · 07-01-2003, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by feldon27
I think you should be able to request 1280x720 or 1920x1080 just like you do with MA now.

Well I hipe so. I'm glad you pointed that out, too, I hadn't even noticed the regular MA had those available.

cjmaddy · 07-01-2003, 05:14 AM

Originally posted by Ralph
Was the GA ever ahead?

Careful Ralph, that's poking fun at Prolific.

I'm with Socrates, re- "... wide aspect ratio on my normal aspect ratio monitor"
The 1.1wide version is still my all time favourite. - but your last statement confuses me! ....

... I hadn't even noticed the regular MA had those available.

Wont that just distort the image? .... Or am I doing something wrong?
But I agree, it would have been disappointing not to have a wide aspect ratio version, however it sounds like the Freshwater is going to be even better!

When I first started keeping Tropical Fish way back, I used to think that Angel Fish were the aristocrats of the average fish tank. Then I bought my first Labeo Bicolor (Red Tailed Black Shark), and from then on it became my favourite. The fact that it will be included in the Freshwater Aquarium from the start, together with this latest news that the tank will be approx x2 screens wide, and premiering with a 3D background, and possibly with a wide aspect ratio option ...........

WOW! - This is too much!

I really can't wait! ..... (But I know I will have to! )

SunKing · 07-01-2003, 05:47 AM

Originally posted by cjmaddy
The fact that it <red tailed shark> will be included in the Freshwater Aquarium from the start, together with this latest news that the tank will be approx x2 screens wide, and premiering with a 3D background, and possibly with a wide aspect ratio option ...........

WOW! - This is too much! I really can't wait! ..... (But I know I will have to! )

Ditto Ditto Ditto! This is exciting news!

cjmaddy · 07-05-2003, 09:37 AM

Jim, - I have been reading back through this thread, and a couple of your references caught my attention.

.... with many of the plants able to sway slightly

.... at any given moment as the plants sway.

How much is 'slightly' Jim? - and will it be occasional, or constant?
I only ask because I find the amount of movement in GA to be a little distracting, sort of like making you sea sick!
Certainly not very 'Serene' - more like making you feel off balance. I think a less regular movement would be more realistic. I am guessing that a spasmodic movement relative to the fish activity would be technically out of the question, and therefore I would prefer to see the plants static, - or perhaps even an 'off' switch?
Plants in aquariums just don't move like that, they don't 'sway', - not all of them all the time - at least mine never did. Yes there is some movement occasionally as fish swim nearby, but not the constant hypnotic toing and froing of GA!

...... Maybe it was my under-gravel filters? - I don't know. - (ie. less water movement!)

Plants only move like that when you try to move a tank with water still in it! - NOT recommended at ANY time !

James · 07-05-2003, 05:29 PM

Originally posted by cjmaddy
Jim, - I have been reading back through this thread, and a couple of your references caught my attention.

How much is 'slightly' Jim? - and will it be occasional, or constant?
I only ask because I find the amount of movement in GA to be a little distracting, sort of like making you sea sick!
Certainly not very 'Serene' - more like making you feel off balance. I think a less regular movement would be more realistic. I am guessing that a spasmodic movement relative to the fish activity would be technically out of the question, and therefore I would prefer to see the plants static, - or perhaps even an 'off' switch?
Plants in aquariums just don't move like that, they don't 'sway', - not all of them all the time - at least mine never did. Yes there is some movement occasionally as fish swim nearby, but not the constant hypnotic toing and froing of GA!

...... Maybe it was my under-gravel filters? - I don't know. - (ie. less water movement!)

Plants only move like that when you try to move a tank with water still in it! - NOT recommended at ANY time !

I'm with Cliff, since I've actually discuss this topic with my CG supervisor as my Master thesis topic, this type of CG animation is very complex if you want it right. Interaction between fishand plant involves many heavy mathematical algorithm includes fluid dynamics, 3D space positional calculation, transformation and shearing of plant's stracture and texturing, in addition, the current of tank water among plant needs to simulate well.

GA's plant moves kinematically regardless the water current or bubble current or fish interation(even went through), it is so hard to do it correctly, I rather have it stand still if the animation is not so realistic, so an "on/off" switch is prefered.

I hope GA can have the similar function.

feldon34 · 07-05-2003, 06:54 PM

GA is having a hard enough time with the fish motion as-is. It's doing quite decent animation but there's still room for improvement. Animating fish going between plants is a TON of work for minimal results, no?

patscarr · 07-05-2003, 08:29 PM

James, you're doing your Masters Thesis on the CG animation of moving plants in an aquarium program?

Ralph · 07-06-2003, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by feldon27
Animating fish going between plants is a TON of work for minimal results, no?

Isn't the intent of our artists / programers to make this as real as possible. Its the "little" things that create that effect. Like the bubbles in the new GA, a few big bubbles are a nice touch. But, in a real tank they would also fracture into smaller bubbles on the way up.
Its all work of course but that is what sets the SS series a notch above the rest.

feldon34 · 07-06-2003, 05:05 PM

I'd rather they spend time on other things. Just my opinion.

James · 07-07-2003, 12:05 AM

Originally posted by patscarr
James, you're doing your Masters Thesis on the CG animation of moving plants in an aquarium program?

Yes, so that I can bring the knowledge to Formosoft when I actually get involved in developing the Aqua Real 3D background, but it's still potential idea, I might still stick with my priginal topic which is Human- obot Interation

Marian Nichols · 07-07-2003, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by James
which is Human- obot Interation

What???

feldon34 · 07-07-2003, 04:29 PM

the e is something w ong with a ce tain key on his keyboa d?

Marian Nichols · 07-07-2003, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by feldon27
the e is something w ong with a ce tain key on his keyboa d?

ROBOT

Now I know what

06-30-2003, 07:53 PM	#162
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	Originally posted by GreenHsiF Let me change my question.Will there be an option to see the whole aquarium Not from what I saw. Maybe if you run it in a window. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

06-30-2003, 11:13 PM	#164
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,775	The Freshwater Tank is a little less than 2 normal screens wide. If you have a normal-aspect monitor, that camera can pan (dolly, actually) back and forth within this wider environment. It can do this either automatically or manually. If set to manual, the camera will simply stay where you put it. If you have a wide screen, then however much of the tank fits on your screen will simply show up. The remainder can be scrolled back and forth. Someday, dual monitors might be supported with the left half of the tank on one screen and the right half on the other - if I ever learn how to do dual-screen. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

06-30-2003, 11:39 PM	#165
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	I am going to be really disappointed if I cannot use a wide aspect ratio on my normal aspect ratio monitor. Something I can do with the MA Wide Version. My card does those ratios, and on this 19" they look fine with bars at top and bottom, so I hope the new programs will not exclude me from using them. Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

07-01-2003, 12:06 AM	#166
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	I think you should be able to request 1280x720 or 1920x1080 just like you do with MA now. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

07-01-2003, 01:23 AM	#167
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	Originally posted by feldon27 I can tell you the Goldfish Aquarium will have to play catch-up. Howmuch though? How far does Prolific go in terms of taking Jim's code and putting it into the general pool for developing the GA? Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

06-30-2003, 07:47 PM	#161
GreenHsiF SereneScreenFanatic Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: California Posts: 261	Let me change my question.Will there be an option to see the whole aquarium,instead of parts of it with the pan feature? I know what ever features and fish gets put in this aquarium will be good because Jim puts the best in,not like those other screensavers out there.

06-30-2003, 10:33 PM	#163
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,438	Originally posted by feldon27 I can tell you the Goldfish Aquarium will have to play catch-up. Was the GA ever ahead?

07-01-2003, 01:24 AM	#168
Socrates Sage Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: West Hills, CA Posts: 1,529	Originally posted by feldon27 I think you should be able to request 1280x720 or 1920x1080 just like you do with MA now. Well I hipe so. I'm glad you pointed that out, too, I hadn't even noticed the regular MA had those available. Bat rays? We don't need no stinking bat rays!

07-01-2003, 05:14 AM	#169
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Originally posted by Ralph Was the GA ever ahead? Careful Ralph, that's poking fun at Prolific. I'm with Socrates, re- "... wide aspect ratio on my normal aspect ratio monitor" The 1.1wide version is still my all time favourite. - but your last statement confuses me! .... ... I hadn't even noticed the regular MA had those available. Wont that just distort the image? .... Or am I doing something wrong? But I agree, it would have been disappointing not to have a wide aspect ratio version, however it sounds like the Freshwater is going to be even better! When I first started keeping Tropical Fish way back, I used to think that Angel Fish were the aristocrats of the average fish tank. Then I bought my first Labeo Bicolor (Red Tailed Black Shark), and from then on it became my favourite. The fact that it will be included in the Freshwater Aquarium from the start, together with this latest news that the tank will be approx x2 screens wide, and premiering with a 3D background, and possibly with a wide aspect ratio option ........... WOW! - This is too much! I really can't wait! ..... (But I know I will have to! )

07-01-2003, 05:47 AM	#170
SunKing Registered Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 238	Originally posted by cjmaddy The fact that it <red tailed shark> will be included in the Freshwater Aquarium from the start, together with this latest news that the tank will be approx x2 screens wide, and premiering with a 3D background, and possibly with a wide aspect ratio option ........... WOW! - This is too much! I really can't wait! ..... (But I know I will have to! ) Ditto Ditto Ditto! This is exciting news! My humble Homepage

07-05-2003, 09:37 AM	#171
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Jim, - I have been reading back through this thread, and a couple of your references caught my attention. .... with many of the plants able to sway slightly .... at any given moment as the plants sway. How much is 'slightly' Jim? - and will it be occasional, or constant? I only ask because I find the amount of movement in GA to be a little distracting, sort of like making you sea sick! Certainly not very 'Serene' - more like making you feel off balance. I think a less regular movement would be more realistic. I am guessing that a spasmodic movement relative to the fish activity would be technically out of the question, and therefore I would prefer to see the plants static, - or perhaps even an 'off' switch? Plants in aquariums just don't move like that, they don't 'sway', - not all of them all the time - at least mine never did. Yes there is some movement occasionally as fish swim nearby, but not the constant hypnotic toing and froing of GA! ...... Maybe it was my under-gravel filters? - I don't know. - (ie. less water movement!) Plants only move like that when you try to move a tank with water still in it! - NOT recommended at ANY time !

07-05-2003, 05:29 PM	#172
James Principal Engineer as SDET Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Was in Auckland, New Zealand, Now in Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 1,406	Originally posted by cjmaddy Jim, - I have been reading back through this thread, and a couple of your references caught my attention. How much is 'slightly' Jim? - and will it be occasional, or constant? I only ask because I find the amount of movement in GA to be a little distracting, sort of like making you sea sick! Certainly not very 'Serene' - more like making you feel off balance. I think a less regular movement would be more realistic. I am guessing that a spasmodic movement relative to the fish activity would be technically out of the question, and therefore I would prefer to see the plants static, - or perhaps even an 'off' switch? Plants in aquariums just don't move like that, they don't 'sway', - not all of them all the time - at least mine never did. Yes there is some movement occasionally as fish swim nearby, but not the constant hypnotic toing and froing of GA! ...... Maybe it was my under-gravel filters? - I don't know. - (ie. less water movement!) Plants only move like that when you try to move a tank with water still in it! - NOT recommended at ANY time ! I'm with Cliff, since I've actually discuss this topic with my CG supervisor as my Master thesis topic, this type of CG animation is very complex if you want it right. Interaction between fishand plant involves many heavy mathematical algorithm includes fluid dynamics, 3D space positional calculation, transformation and shearing of plant's stracture and texturing, in addition, the current of tank water among plant needs to simulate well. GA's plant moves kinematically regardless the water current or bubble current or fish interation(even went through), it is so hard to do it correctly, I rather have it stand still if the animation is not so realistic, so an "on/off" switch is prefered. I hope GA can have the similar function. James C Chen Principal Engineer as SDET, Connected Services HTC Corporation 88 Section 3. Zhongxing Road Xindian District, New Taipei City 231, Taiwan www.htc.com

07-05-2003, 06:54 PM	#173
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	GA is having a hard enough time with the fish motion as-is. It's doing quite decent animation but there's still room for improvement. Animating fish going between plants is a TON of work for minimal results, no? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

07-05-2003, 08:29 PM	#174
patscarr Pet Shark Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Back in Buffalo Posts: 5,455	James, you're doing your Masters Thesis on the CG animation of moving plants in an aquarium program? Patrick

07-06-2003, 08:41 AM	#175
Ralph Retired Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Edmonton Alberta Ca Posts: 2,438	Originally posted by feldon27 Animating fish going between plants is a TON of work for minimal results, no? Isn't the intent of our artists / programers to make this as real as possible. Its the "little" things that create that effect. Like the bubbles in the new GA, a few big bubbles are a nice touch. But, in a real tank they would also fracture into smaller bubbles on the way up. Its all work of course but that is what sets the SS series a notch above the rest.

07-06-2003, 05:05 PM	#176
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	I'd rather they spend time on other things. Just my opinion. "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

07-07-2003, 12:05 AM	#177
James Principal Engineer as SDET Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Was in Auckland, New Zealand, Now in Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 1,406	Originally posted by patscarr James, you're doing your Masters Thesis on the CG animation of moving plants in an aquarium program? Yes, so that I can bring the knowledge to Formosoft when I actually get involved in developing the Aqua Real 3D background, but it's still potential idea, I might still stick with my priginal topic which is Human- obot Interation James C Chen Principal Engineer as SDET, Connected Services HTC Corporation 88 Section 3. Zhongxing Road Xindian District, New Taipei City 231, Taiwan www.htc.com

07-07-2003, 03:01 PM	#178
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Originally posted by James which is Human- obot Interation What??? Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

07-07-2003, 04:29 PM	#179
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,938	the e is something w ong with a ce tain key on his keyboa d? "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman

07-07-2003, 05:01 PM	#180
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Originally posted by feldon27 the e is something w ong with a ce tain key on his keyboa d? ROBOT Now I know what Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.