360 degree view angle? - Page 2

Jav400 · 05-02-2009, 07:11 AM

The fish are completely done in 3d, therefore they can rotate, everything else that you see is not, only the parts you are seeing are. For instance take an apple and cut it in half vertically. Now squat down exactly at eye level and look at the uncut side. There is nothing there to tell you that the other half of that apple on the back isn't there, but it isn't.

You cannot and will not be able to rotate the tank. I don't think people really want Jim to spend the next 5 years working on corals just so you can rotate the tank to the exclusion of everything else?

Welcome to the forum Tom.

Overlord · 05-02-2009, 07:28 AM

[quote=Jav400;113159]
You cannot and will not be able to rotate the tank. I don't think people really want Jim to spend the next 5 years working on corals just so you can rotate the tank to the exclusion of everything else?

Amen to that!

cjmaddy · 05-02-2009, 08:42 AM

Only 5 years?? ...... Mmm.... I was thinking more like 50 for that class of miracle.....

tom95521 · 05-02-2009, 12:09 PM

OK. It sounds like the easiest method to emulate 360 deg. rotation would be to match the graphic objects at each end of the tank so seamless panning in one direction is possible. Probably not worth the effort. Thanks for the replies. Great program.

Jim Sachs · 05-02-2009, 12:49 PM

The thing that makes the fish fairly easy to display in full-3D is the fact that saltwater fish are so thin (almost 2-dimensional). That's why I chose a marine tank as my subject. The jagged, irregular outlines of the fish only really show up from the left or right sides. Try rotating an irregular piece of coral, and the smooth polygon-based nature of the object quickly becomes apparent. Again, I'm not going to talk about the secret way around this except to say that it's incredibly time consuming.

Dale · 05-02-2009, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by tom95521:

I'm new to marine aquarium 3 so please excuse my newbie ignorance. The fish appear to have the ability to rotate 360 deg. in the z axis and all x/y/z variations so then it seems that if the aquarium tank were shaped like a snowglobe it could rotate the same way as the fish? They (the fish) don't require infinite number of edges? Tom

If you have an excellent graphics card and PC, you might be able to get 1 frame per second with true 3D on this complex scene. Or, in 10 years, you might be able to buy (at reasonably-affordable prices) hardware that would do reasonable frame rates.

jleslie · 05-02-2009, 03:16 PM

I think bump-mapping would help a lot...

Marian Nichols · 05-02-2009, 04:53 PM

Uuuuummmmm, sound like a task for Einstein,
I must not be too hard to please because I just love it as is. I am watching it for my pleasure and not to scruntinized it, I leave that to Cliff. He is really good at it.

henemly · 05-02-2009, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

I'm not going to talk about the secret

Please don't.

Lin Evans · 05-03-2009, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by tom95521:

I'm new to marine aquarium 3 so please excuse my newbie ignorance. The fish appear to have the ability to rotate 360 deg. in the z axis and all x/y/z variations so then it seems that if the aquarium tank were shaped like a snowglobe it could rotate the same way as the fish? They (the fish) don't require infinite number of edges? Tom

Assuming - from a theoretical perspective that it were possible to rotate the aquarium, think of the complexity of the simultaneous rotation and motion changes of the fish swimming in the aquarium which already have complex movements.

Possibly the best practical solution would be perhaps be a few alternate fixed views of the aquarium background, but even this presents myriad technical issues such as photographing a real model of the aquarium without the fish but containing the other fixed objects for processing - lots of work for the small return I should think.

As it is, I think the saltwater aquarium with 30 fish is an incredible accomplishment in 3D. To get anything more realistic would require video rather than 3D and the file sizes would be huge and could not have nearly the versatility which is offered with the present model.

Best regards,

Lin

Marian Nichols · 05-03-2009, 01:49 PM

feldon34 · 05-03-2009, 07:47 PM

Sorry, been traveling so late to this party, but just realize that the corals were photographed, modeled, and built from one side. To rotate the camera more than about 15 degrees would reveal this as everything would "fly apart".

05-02-2009, 07:11 AM	#21
Jav400 Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 9,725	The fish are completely done in 3d, therefore they can rotate, everything else that you see is not, only the parts you are seeing are. For instance take an apple and cut it in half vertically. Now squat down exactly at eye level and look at the uncut side. There is nothing there to tell you that the other half of that apple on the back isn't there, but it isn't. You cannot and will not be able to rotate the tank. I don't think people really want Jim to spend the next 5 years working on corals just so you can rotate the tank to the exclusion of everything else? Welcome to the forum Tom. Michael Administrator of Inside:SereneScreen Aquarium Forum, Chatroom, Fan Site & *Gallery* DVD Collection

05-02-2009, 12:49 PM	#25
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,787	The thing that makes the fish fairly easy to display in full-3D is the fact that saltwater fish are so thin (almost 2-dimensional). That's why I chose a marine tank as my subject. The jagged, irregular outlines of the fish only really show up from the left or right sides. Try rotating an irregular piece of coral, and the smooth polygon-based nature of the object quickly becomes apparent. Again, I'm not going to talk about the secret way around this except to say that it's incredibly time consuming. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium Last edited by Jim Sachs; 05-02-2009 at 02:54 PM.

05-02-2009, 04:53 PM	#28
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Uuuuummmmm, sound like a task for Einstein, I must not be too hard to please because I just love it as is. I am watching it for my pleasure and not to scruntinized it, I leave that to Cliff. He is really good at it. Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

05-03-2009, 01:40 PM	#30
Lin Evans Registered Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Berthoud, Colorado USA Posts: 9	Originally posted by tom95521: I'm new to marine aquarium 3 so please excuse my newbie ignorance. The fish appear to have the ability to rotate 360 deg. in the z axis and all x/y/z variations so then it seems that if the aquarium tank were shaped like a snowglobe it could rotate the same way as the fish? They (the fish) don't require infinite number of edges? Tom Assuming - from a theoretical perspective that it were possible to rotate the aquarium, think of the complexity of the simultaneous rotation and motion changes of the fish swimming in the aquarium which already have complex movements. Possibly the best practical solution would be perhaps be a few alternate fixed views of the aquarium background, but even this presents myriad technical issues such as photographing a real model of the aquarium without the fish but containing the other fixed objects for processing - lots of work for the small return I should think. As it is, I think the saltwater aquarium with 30 fish is an incredible accomplishment in 3D. To get anything more realistic would require video rather than 3D and the file sizes would be huge and could not have nearly the versatility which is offered with the present model. Best regards, Lin lin@learntomakeslideshows.net

05-03-2009, 01:49 PM	#31
Marian Nichols ~Author~ Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Rocky Mount, NC Posts: 7,429	Write paranormal mysteries. Six books so far.

05-02-2009, 07:28 AM	#22
Overlord Registered Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 72	[quote=Jav400;113159] You cannot and will not be able to rotate the tank. I don't think people really want Jim to spend the next 5 years working on corals just so you can rotate the tank to the exclusion of everything else? Amen to that!

05-02-2009, 08:42 AM	#23
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Only 5 years?? ...... Mmm.... I was thinking more like 50 for that class of miracle.....

05-02-2009, 12:09 PM	#24
tom95521 Registered Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Arcata, Ca. Posts: 2	OK. It sounds like the easiest method to emulate 360 deg. rotation would be to match the graphic objects at each end of the tank so seamless panning in one direction is possible. Probably not worth the effort. Thanks for the replies. Great program.

05-02-2009, 01:21 PM	#26
Dale Banned Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 960	Originally posted by tom95521: I'm new to marine aquarium 3 so please excuse my newbie ignorance. The fish appear to have the ability to rotate 360 deg. in the z axis and all x/y/z variations so then it seems that if the aquarium tank were shaped like a snowglobe it could rotate the same way as the fish? They (the fish) don't require infinite number of edges? Tom If you have an excellent graphics card and PC, you might be able to get 1 frame per second with true 3D on this complex scene. Or, in 10 years, you might be able to buy (at reasonably-affordable prices) hardware that would do reasonable frame rates.

05-02-2009, 03:16 PM	#27
jleslie Engineer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: London, UK Posts: 1,279	I think bump-mapping would help a lot...

05-02-2009, 06:34 PM	#29
henemly asdf Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Hiko, CommieFagnia Posts: 278	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: I'm not going to talk about the secret Please don't.

05-03-2009, 07:47 PM	#32
feldon34 Forum Administrator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 10,939	Sorry, been traveling so late to this party, but just realize that the corals were photographed, modeled, and built from one side. To rotate the camera more than about 15 degrees would reveal this as everything would "fly apart". "Journalism is printing what someone else does not want printed. Everything else is public relations." - George Orwell "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal." - Emma Goldman