Fixed Bug 3.0 Beta 7 MA3 Beta #1 goes Matrix

Tiny Turtle · 10-10-2008, 03:45 PM

Hm,
I fired up Beta #1 here at work on a dual screen XP rig and managed to find a bug right away: When I switch to windowed mode the fish freeze up! Bubbles are rising just fine and the scrolling works like it should, but the fish are stationary.

With the point of view changing with the scrolling you get a very cool Matrix effect in slow motion, but I doubt that's the way Jim intended.

As for being able to repeat this bug – yes I can. In fact I can't get it to work properly again. Switching to wireframe mode works though the fish still don't move. Switching back to full-screen makes the fish move again. This happen regardless of whether the window is on monitor 1 or 2 and if the window is active or not

Specs:
Pentium 4 3.2GHz (HP machine)
2 GB RAM
Geforce 6500 "Turbocache" (256 MB)

Running XP Pro SP2
in 1280x1024 + 1680x1050
(fullscreen on both runs in ~32 fps)

P.S.
Morg, you can add the GF6500 next to the 6600 on your list, right?

Jim Sachs · 10-10-2008, 04:48 PM

Wow, that's going to be tough to track down. I have no idea how the fish could stop and the rest of the animation could keep going - everything is in the same loop.

Tiny Turtle · 10-10-2008, 06:31 PM

Separate threads people!

rlowens · 10-10-2008, 06:54 PM

I get the same "fish freeze, but everything else continues" bug in windowed mode on my machine. The water highlights/bubbles/scrolling continues, and switching back to full-screen mode unfreezes the fish.

# Windows XP Pro
# 4GB RAM
# nVidia GeForce 8600
# Soyo 24" LCD at 1920 x 1200 and Rosewill 19" LCD at 1280 x 1024 (dual monitor)

Jim Sachs · 10-10-2008, 07:15 PM

Could one of you guys try it on a single monitor and see if it does the same thing?

F34R · 10-10-2008, 07:30 PM

I just tried switching from full screen to windowed, and back again... worked w/o any problems.

gateway 6860 fx laptop
Vista 64 Ultimate
8800GTS
IDT HD Audio
4GB RAM

Surferminn · 10-11-2008, 01:05 AM

Works ok for me too. I only have one monitor. No frozen fishes, able to switch from window to full screen both in wired mode and nonwired mode.

Computer: Dell Dimension 4600, ATI Radeon 9600, 1.5GB ram, Pentium 4, 2.4ghz, Windows XP Home

rlowens · 10-11-2008, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by Jim Sachs:

Could one of you guys try it on a single monitor and see if it does the same thing?

No freeze in windowed mode after I disabled the 2nd monitor. So, that seems to be related.

No freeze with disabled 2nd monitor, freeze if 2nd monitor is enabled.
# Windows XP Pro
# 4GB RAM
# nVidia GeForce 8600
# Soyo 24" LCD at 1920 x 1200

F34R · 10-11-2008, 06:40 AM

Guess I need to get a second monitor. hehe...

rlowens · 10-20-2008, 06:47 PM

Just an update: Beta #3 still has this problem with 2 monitors.

rlowens · 11-11-2008, 05:17 PM

Update: Beta #5 and 5a still have this problem with 2 monitors.

cjmaddy · 11-11-2008, 06:11 PM

I suppose I should have posted before on this thread, but I thought the problem may now be resolved. - I have never experienced this fish freeze in windowed mode whilst using two monitors. - I'm not suggesting that it doesn't occur on some systems, - only that in my case I can't get it to happen.

The only effect I get is that the FPS in the window, drops considerably even if only a small portion of the window is on the second monitor. So I only have the window displayed on the 1st screen.

AMD Athlon XP2500+
1535MB
nVidia 7900GS (Driver 178.24)
Dx 9.0c
Win2kPro SP4
Dual VP920 ViewSonic Monitors

cjmaddy · 11-29-2008, 11:41 AM

In this thread, started by Tiny, you will notice that those reporting the same problem were also all using more than one screen.

An anomaly that cropped up whilst trying to diagnose a problem with DA, may also be the clue to what is causing this 'frozen fish' situation here in MA3.

In the case of MA3, the problem isn't necessarily to do with the order in which the monitor leads are connected to the video card, - But it might be!
If the leads are the 'wrong' way around. ie. With the video card's socket nearest to the motherboard going to the right-hand screen, - then it can result in odd things happening. - (Note: I've read somewhere that normally this is the socket considered to be the one that should connect to the left-hand (No 1) monitor.) - This of course doesn't really matter, as corrections can be made in the Display Properties. - But if that results in changing over the screen you choose to have as your Primary monitor, then the chances are that the fish could freeze when in Windowed Mode!

Regardless of all the above, just changing the monitor that is 'Primary' can result in this freezing when in a window. - But it is the above that usually necessitates changing which one is to be primary. - Other programs such as DA or Marine Aquarium, can still be spread correctly left to right, but it's in choosing which is primary, that the freezing starts!

I have checked and double-checked all the combinations and changes I can think of, - and I always get the same result. - The bubbles rise, the sound is unaffected, and the scene still auto-scrolls across the window. - But the fish are frozen!

So, come on, Tiny, rlowens, Ed, etc.... - can you unfreeze your fish? ...... It's over to you!

- This may not be the solution to the bug, but it is a work-around that might unfreeze your fish. - (A re-boot may be necessary to make sure everything on your desktop shows in the right place.)

Edgar · 11-29-2008, 12:48 PM

Does anybody with an ATI graphic card experienced any frozen fish problem?

Edgar · 11-29-2008, 12:59 PM

Cliff,
Thanks for the insight.

I have duplicated the problem on an ATI card and should be able to come up with a solution.

Jim Sachs · 11-29-2008, 02:25 PM

Good sleuthing, Cliff!

Edgar · 11-29-2008, 03:07 PM

Jim,
If you can push your changes so I can apply my changes, I think I have the fix for this bug. It might have fixed some other bugs reported also.

There is also a possibility that it broke something but it should not.

cjmaddy · 11-29-2008, 03:10 PM

I'm sorry that those of you with one screen can not witness this for yourselves. It is fascinating to manually scroll a large window of a tank filled with the maximum number of fish, (all frozen in 3D suspension!). - It's strange how it shows off the 3D depth of the tank, and of the fish, in an amazing way that doesn't come across the same, as when things are behaving as they should, the normal way!

Edgar · 11-29-2008, 03:46 PM

The key "F5" will almost do the same thing except the background is also frozen.

Edit: Oops, I really should have tested that first. It doesn't do the same thing.

Jim Sachs · 11-29-2008, 03:58 PM

I'll let Edgar handle this one, since it's a hassle for me to set up two monitors. I'm busy working on the new website.

10-10-2008, 04:48 PM	#2
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,794	Wow, that's going to be tough to track down. I have no idea how the fish could stop and the rest of the animation could keep going - everything is in the same loop. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-10-2008, 06:54 PM	#4
rlowens Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Same freeze on windowed mode for me I get the same "fish freeze, but everything else continues" bug in windowed mode on my machine. The water highlights/bubbles/scrolling continues, and switching back to full-screen mode unfreezes the fish. # Windows XP Pro # 4GB RAM # nVidia GeForce 8600 # Soyo 24" LCD at 1920 x 1200 and Rosewill 19" LCD at 1280 x 1024 (dual monitor)

10-11-2008, 01:05 AM	#7
Surferminn Senior Puddle Jumper Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: California Posts: 6,017	Works ok for me too. I only have one monitor. No frozen fishes, able to switch from window to full screen both in wired mode and nonwired mode. Computer: Dell Dimension 4600, ATI Radeon 9600, 1.5GB ram, Pentium 4, 2.4ghz, Windows XP Home Nothing Changes if Nothing Changes.

11-29-2008, 11:41 AM	#13
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	Frozen fish? - I think this is the explanation.... In this thread, started by Tiny, you will notice that those reporting the same problem were also all using more than one screen. An anomaly that cropped up whilst trying to diagnose a problem with DA, may also be the clue to what is causing this 'frozen fish' situation here in MA3. In the case of MA3, the problem isn't necessarily to do with the order in which the monitor leads are connected to the video card, - But it might be! If the leads are the 'wrong' way around. ie. With the video card's socket nearest to the motherboard going to the right-hand screen, - then it can result in odd things happening. - (Note: I've read somewhere that normally this is the socket considered to be the one that should connect to the left-hand (No 1) monitor.) - This of course doesn't really matter, as corrections can be made in the Display Properties. - But if that results in changing over the screen you choose to have as your Primary monitor, then the chances are that the fish could freeze when in Windowed Mode! Regardless of all the above, just changing the monitor that is 'Primary' can result in this freezing when in a window. - But it is the above that usually necessitates changing which one is to be primary. - Other programs such as DA or Marine Aquarium, can still be spread correctly left to right, but it's in choosing which is primary, that the freezing starts! I have checked and double-checked all the combinations and changes I can think of, - and I always get the same result. - The bubbles rise, the sound is unaffected, and the scene still auto-scrolls across the window. - But the fish are frozen! So, come on, Tiny, rlowens, Ed, etc.... - can you unfreeze your fish? ...... It's over to you! - This may not be the solution to the bug, but it is a work-around that might unfreeze your fish. - (A re-boot may be necessary to make sure everything on your desktop shows in the right place.)

11-29-2008, 12:48 PM	#14
Edgar Prolific/SereneScreen Developer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Norwalk, CA Posts: 513	Does anybody with an ATI graphic card experienced any frozen fish problem? *Edgar Tolentino* Prolific Developer www.prolific.com www.LifeGlobe.com

10-10-2008, 03:45 PM	#1
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	MA3 Beta #1 goes Matrix Hm, I fired up Beta #1 here at work on a dual screen XP rig and managed to find a bug right away: When I switch to windowed mode the fish freeze up! Bubbles are rising just fine and the scrolling works like it should, but the fish are stationary. With the point of view changing with the scrolling you get a very cool Matrix effect in slow motion, but I doubt that's the way Jim intended. As for being able to repeat this bug – yes I can. In fact I can't get it to work properly again. Switching to wireframe mode works though the fish still don't move. Switching back to full-screen makes the fish move again. This happen regardless of whether the window is on monitor 1 or 2 and if the window is active or not Specs: Pentium 4 3.2GHz (HP machine) 2 GB RAM Geforce 6500 "Turbocache" (256 MB) Running XP Pro SP2 in 1280x1024 + 1680x1050 (fullscreen on both runs in ~32 fps) P.S. Morg, you can add the GF6500 next to the 6600 on your list, right? Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

10-10-2008, 06:31 PM	#3
Tiny Turtle is pleased Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Stockholm, Sweden Posts: 7,365	Separate threads people! Thanks to Morgan, Tiny Snapshots is up and running again with "Tiny Järvafält" as the latest addition – Go have a look and tell me what you think. "We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, 'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.' I suppose we all thought that, one way or another." /Robert Oppenheimer on witnessing the first thermonuclear detonation in history.

10-10-2008, 07:15 PM	#5
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,794	Could one of you guys try it on a single monitor and see if it does the same thing? Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

10-10-2008, 07:30 PM	#6
F34R Registered Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 52	I just tried switching from full screen to windowed, and back again... worked w/o any problems. gateway 6860 fx laptop Vista 64 Ultimate 8800GTS IDT HD Audio 4GB RAM

10-11-2008, 06:27 AM	#8
rlowens Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Originally posted by Jim Sachs: Could one of you guys try it on a single monitor and see if it does the same thing? No freeze in windowed mode after I disabled the 2nd monitor. So, that seems to be related. No freeze with disabled 2nd monitor, freeze if 2nd monitor is enabled. # Windows XP Pro # 4GB RAM # nVidia GeForce 8600 # Soyo 24" LCD at 1920 x 1200

10-11-2008, 06:40 AM	#9
F34R Registered Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 52	Guess I need to get a second monitor. hehe...

10-20-2008, 06:47 PM	#10
rlowens Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Just an update: Beta #3 still has this problem with 2 monitors.

11-11-2008, 05:17 PM	#11
rlowens Registered Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6	Update: Beta #5 and 5a still have this problem with 2 monitors.

11-11-2008, 06:11 PM	#12
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	I suppose I should have posted before on this thread, but I thought the problem may now be resolved. - I have never experienced this fish freeze in windowed mode whilst using two monitors. - I'm not suggesting that it doesn't occur on some systems, - only that in my case I can't get it to happen. The only effect I get is that the FPS in the window, drops considerably even if only a small portion of the window is on the second monitor. So I only have the window displayed on the 1st screen. AMD Athlon XP2500+ 1535MB nVidia 7900GS (Driver 178.24) Dx 9.0c Win2kPro SP4 Dual VP920 ViewSonic Monitors

11-29-2008, 12:59 PM	#15
Edgar Prolific/SereneScreen Developer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Norwalk, CA Posts: 513	Cliff, Thanks for the insight. I have duplicated the problem on an ATI card and should be able to come up with a solution. *Edgar Tolentino* Prolific Developer www.prolific.com www.LifeGlobe.com

11-29-2008, 02:25 PM	#16
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,794	Good sleuthing, Cliff! Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium

11-29-2008, 03:07 PM	#17
Edgar Prolific/SereneScreen Developer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Norwalk, CA Posts: 513	Jim, If you can push your changes so I can apply my changes, I think I have the fix for this bug. It might have fixed some other bugs reported also. There is also a possibility that it broke something but it should not. *Edgar Tolentino* Prolific Developer www.prolific.com www.LifeGlobe.com

11-29-2008, 03:10 PM	#18
cjmaddy Registered Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Lancashire, UK Posts: 7,854	I'm sorry that those of you with one screen can not witness this for yourselves. It is fascinating to manually scroll a large window of a tank filled with the maximum number of fish, (all frozen in 3D suspension!). - It's strange how it shows off the 3D depth of the tank, and of the fish, in an amazing way that doesn't come across the same, as when things are behaving as they should, the normal way!

11-29-2008, 03:46 PM	#19
Edgar Prolific/SereneScreen Developer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Norwalk, CA Posts: 513	The key "F5" will almost do the same thing except the background is also frozen. Edit: Oops, I really should have tested that first. It doesn't do the same thing. *Edgar Tolentino* Prolific Developer www.prolific.com www.LifeGlobe.com

11-29-2008, 03:58 PM	#20
Jim Sachs Developer Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 9,794	I'll let Edgar handle this one, since it's a hassle for me to set up two monitors. I'm busy working on the new website. Jim Sachs Creator of SereneScreen Aquarium